[DeTomaso] 4 bolt ZF's? - here is one for sale

Thu May 12 15:26:55 EDT 2011

Ok….well I was anxious to get an educated second opinion on the photo. That confirms my suspicions….. Thanks Kirby.

From: Kirby Schrader [mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:24 PM
To: Cullen McCann
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com; MikeLDrew at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 4 bolt ZF's? - here is one for sale

Well, based on that picture, I'd say they are most likely stock ones that have been cut out for Group 4 flares as you suggested/he suggested previously.

Hard to tell with out a 'top down' picture to see the profile....

They are certainly NOT Gr4 flares.... way too small.

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 14:17, Cullen McCann <cmccann1972 at gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Kirby, I’ve attached pics of the flares in question…or the pic EJ sent to me. The list won’t get the pic obviously but I would be curious about your and Mike’s opinion of what the heck I’m looking at. Truth be told, I would like to have a set of the metal GTS flares…and I might just by the aftermarkets, they aren’t too pricey, but then these popped up on the radar. As I mentioned…EJ told me they were grp 4 but they don’t look like that at all to me…look more like factory cut outs…but the photo angle makes them look shallower than grp 4 flairs to me…

Thoughts?

From: Kirby Schrader [mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2011 2:10 PM
To: Cullen McCann
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 4 bolt ZF's? - here is one for sale

If that EJ from Nebraska is the EJ I have met, then his last name is Poss.

If I remember correctly. I met him way back in 1985?, maybe 1986 at the Woody Creek track in Colorado.
Ah, yes.... those were the days.... running Panteras on a go kart track.

EJ is a very nice guy who had a yellow '71. His license plate was 71 UFO and one of his friends told me that super bike guys in Omaha would warn each other NOT to take on the yellow car with the UFO license plate.
They'd get beat.

EJ apparently had nitrous on it at the time. 

I would bet the flares he is talking about are GTS flares. They 'look' stock off the car, but are slightly wider than the stock.

A lot of supposition above, but that may help.

FWIW,
Kirby

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 13:48, Cullen McCann <cmccann1972 at gmail.com> wrote:

Friends,

So the reason that all of this discussion originally started is that I have
found an ad for some misc pantera parts on craigslist in Omaha Nebraska.
Here is the original link to the ad:
http://omaha.craigslist.org/pts/2347054391.html

I corresponded with this guy for over a week about some things he had for
sale, including the ZF and got detailed photos of it and some sheet metal.
Here is some additional info. His name is EJ. He definitely has a dash 1 ZF
"4 bolt". It does not appear to have the bell housing, at least it's not in
the pictures. Actually I haven't clarified. Photos show details of the
manufacturing tag and gearing. He has told me he used to have an early 71
and these are mostly parts left over from it years ago. On the ZF he states
he doesn't really know what its worth.but from talking to him I think he
knows enough not to be low balled like 500 bucks or something. He asked me
to make an offer.I never did, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could buy
it pretty cheap. I am not interested in it for myself. He says it was
rebuilt by Butfoy in the early 80s.and still has Roy's tag on the case. It
was stored indoors in his warehouse where it resides now. He has sent me
photos of it, in good detail. It does appear to be rebuilt from the photos
and does have a tag on it with recognizable hand writing. The ZF serial info
is clearly visible so I assume you could contact Roy and he might have
records of the build, but I don't know.

If you want me to send you photos of this gearbox let me know. it has the
gearing on the tag that matches what John Buckman provided for early Dash 1
gearing: Early Pantera dash 1 gearing:

1st:    2.42

2nd:  1.47

3rd:   1.09

4th:   0.96

5th:   0.705

Rev: 2.86

This seller also says he has some other items for sale. He has some flairs
that he told me he thought where aftermarket metal Grp 4 flairs. He sent me
photos of them but to me they are pretty clearly stock body fender flares or
lips that have been cut out of the car, I assume so somebody could install
wide body flares at some point. I have a pic of those as well, and he has a
passenger rear corner patch panel with taillight housing and exhaust cutout,
with a portion of the rear valance. Looks like a fabricated piece to me
rather than cut from an original car but certainly could be worth something
if you had corner damage on the pass rear.

Those are all the photos I have that he sent me, all that I inquired about,
but he says he also has these items: a 71 dash and console, two "trunk
pods", compact spares, and L style bumper, stock exhaust system, carbs and
air cleaners, dip stick. Has a couple of oem suspension items, like a set of
control arms, front calipers and new front and rear pads "in the box".

I'm passing this info on for the list's use. I talked to EJ just yesterday
and told him I was going to pass this info on to the masses.he told me he
will be putting the items he has for sale on ebay simply because he doesn't
know what they are worth..and he feels that the auction nature will
inherently determine that.

Good luck!

Cullen

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of MikeLDrew at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 7:53 PM
To: michaelsavga at gmail.com
Cc: guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 4 bolt ZF's?

In a message dated 5/7/11 17 13 16, michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:

> Thanks , as always there is more to the story.

>

I certainly wouldn't feel bad if I had a Dash-1 gearbox in my car.   One

downside is that parts are substantially more expensive, so rebuilding one

becomes a time-consuming and expensive proposition.   All parts are still
being

made for them however.   If you had an unusual problem it might take quite

a few months to get an unusual part replicated.

Mike

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