[DeTomaso] Fw: Heater control valve
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 24 16:51:46 EDT 2011
John,
Are you using your heater water pump off/on, or with a PWM power supply?
Ken
--- On Wed, 3/23/11, John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: Heater control valve
To: "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com>, "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 6:53 PM
Julian, Not really. The plumbing to the heater core is before the bypass thermostat.
Thus, the coolant is circulating through the closed system and has access to the heater core before the thermostat opens. For the benefit of other following the thread and unfamiliar with the set up, the bypass thermostat is placed right in front of the radiator. Image here http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/Technical/pantera_coolant_flow.jpg
Intuitively, I understand that the additional coolant circulating through the modified system, prior to the bypass thermostat opening, will take longer to heat up when compared to the stock system where the thermostat is restricting coolant to only the block. However, It only seems to require 3 - 4 miles to get up to thermostat opening temps in the modified system. Obviously, heated air is available prior to the thermostat opening. Admittedly, defrosting is an issue we rarely deal with in Houston. Who is parking their Pantera outside in the winter anyway?
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Julian Kift
To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com ; De Tomaso List
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Fw: Heater control valve
John,
Is there a downside to this location for the heater fluid by way of no defrost function until the engine is up to operating temperature?
If so woud you advocate taking heater fluid feed from the block and returning to the radiator feed line up front as per you current setup?
Thanks,
Julian
> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 18:50:48 -0500
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Fw: Heater control valve
>
> Uh oh, Barry's keeping me honest. He said.
>
> John
> I thought you had no flow through the core unless the pump was running. I
> copied your setup! Why would we need valves?
>
> Barry, Larry and I were responding privately as well. I don't think he'd mind me sharing this communication below. That said, you can see that I confirmed, in a private e-mail to him, the valves aren't necessary if you duplicate my article. Of course, my car was the "test mule" and I included them since I didn't know it at the time. I also intended to track the car from time to time and anticipated the tech inspectors requiring them.
>
> JT
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Taphorn
> To: Larry Finch
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Heater control valve
>
>
> I agree, it is a risk that I would be willing to take on my personal car. No big deal to change them out and little consequence should they fail. It is a larger issue when you are placing it into operation on someone else's. That said, a better temp. measure is preferred.
>
> Actually, I have plumbed the heater core two ways off the front pipes. Originally on my car, I plumbed the heater core's gozinta and exit from the pipe with fluid exiting the engine. With this set up there is no pressure differential and fluid requires the Mercedes water pump to circulate. After I turn off the pump, the heater core cools rapidly to ambient. My experience tells me that the valves are unnecessary in this arrangement. Another benefit of this system is that no coolant by-passes the radiator.
>
> Other cars I have plumbed with the heater core's gazinta side on the engine exit pipe and the exiting coolant into the return line after the radiator. Our experience is that the water pump may be unnecessary in this arrangement because the pressure diff between the pipes before and after the radiator is adequate to motivate flow through the heater core. Of course, the coolant bypasses the radiator in this set up.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Finch
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Heater control valve
>
>
> John,
>
> I've put in a call to the seller for more info.
>
> I'll let you know.
>
> But really, if design spec is for 195, that is pretty close to being workable. My feeling is while the stated spec is not ideal to our use, a product often has a large fudge factor built into it to allow it safe operation above what is advertised.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: oldwheel at shaw.ca; detomaso at realbig.com; Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 23, 2011 3:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Heater control valve
>
>
> Larry
>
> Wow, if only it operated at higher temps. This would be ideal for my set up. When I switch on the Mercedes electric water pump, the values could be co-wired to open. I'm in if you can find one to handle 50 more degrees.
>
> Thanks for the heads up
>
> JT
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Finch" <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: <oldwheel at shaw.ca>; <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Heater control valve
>
> > Barry,
> >
> > NOW I see what you are trying to get across. ;-) Senior moments = DOH.
> >
> > It took awhile but what you are saying is the water pump delivers a set > amount of push, and if the heater hoses are dead headed, then that amount > of push needed (but not being used) to move coolant through the heater > hoses must by default now be delivered to push coolant through the > radiator hoses. Right?
> >
> >
> > SOOOO, if the 4-port allows coolant to be pushed through the valve's > bypass circuit, the portion of the water pump push now being used in the > 4-port bypass circuit is no longer being directed into the radiator hose > system. I get it.
> >
> > In that case, for those of us wanting an electric solution to the shut-off > valve modification, perhaps one of these is 'more better'?
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/5-8-electric-valve
> >
> > Only caution is the rating of this valve says maximum fluid temperature is > 195 F.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: B. Seib <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
> > To: DetomasoList <detomaso at realbig.com>; Larry Finch > <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> > Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2011 4:33 pm
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Heater control valve
> >
> >
> > Larry
> > I don't want to beat this to death but...
> > I disagree.
> >
> > ANY device that allows coolant coming from the water pump to come back to
> > the engine block without having to go through the radiator reduces the
> > cooling capacity of the system. If the heater core is an effective > radiator,
> > then it would be the only exception. I doubt that is ever the case and > most
> > of us don't want to drive around with the heater on high to help cool the
> > engine.
> >
> > Any bypass of the radiator results in less cooling.
> > It's not just the thermostat that you are bypassing, it's also the > radiator!
> >
> > Respectfully
> > Barry
> >
> >
> >
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