[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 83, Issue 11
David
adin at frontier.net
Sat Jun 11 08:28:41 EDT 2011
On Jun 11, 2011, at 5:00 AM, detomaso-request at realbig.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ? (B Hower)
> 2. Re: Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ? (Daniel C Jones)
> 3. Re: Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ? (doug351c)
> 4. Quite around here... (Garth Rodericks)
> 5. Re: Quite around here... (Peter Kovacs)
> 6. no electricity from switch to starter (mark skwarek)
> 7. Re: no electricity from switch to starter
> (michael at michaelshortt.com)
> 8. Re: no electricity from switch to starter (mark skwarek)
> 9. Re: no electricity from switch to starter (John Bentley)
> 10. Re: no electricity from switch to starter (SOBill at aol.com)
> 11. Re: Quite around here... (boyd casey)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 06:29:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ?
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <223151.79852.qm at web110101.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi All,
> ?
> While digging through my collection of things to rebuild an engine (to replace the "7 Banger"), I found a 15 year old -?new in the box -?Sealed Power Speed-Pro 220-3121
> timing chain set for a 351C.
> ?
> Is there any know pros or cons to this set?
> ?
> Thanks,
> ?
> Bud #3400
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:13:31 -0500
> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ?
> To: Pantera REALBIG forum <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimaEV-1E6NssM4kB7L0Tyy4n4E9tg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> Sealed Power Speed-Pro 220-3121 timing chain set for a 351C.
>> Is there any know pros or cons to this set?
>
> Most vendors of timing sets do not make the timing sets they sell. Instead,
> they repackage the chain and gears from multiple vendors. You need to know
> who made the sprockets and chains. One of the guys on the FE Big Block Ford
> forum used to work at Speed Pro. When he worked there they had offshore
> companies trying to be suppliers, so they piggybacked some chain and sprocket
> testing on an OE bearing durability dyno run. The Rolon chain from India
> cost them the test motor a couple times when it failed before the test was
> completed. Having just disassembled a 351C that had a Rolon chain, I can
> believe it. This engine had approximately 8000 miles on the chain and it
> was stretched worse than the one I pulled from my 5.0L at 163,000 miles. A
> summary of the test results for the chains is listed below. Speed Pro ended
> up using Dynagear sprockets and Morse chain but had some quality control
> issues then Dynagear went out of business. After that they sourced the high
> end Cloyes sets (which used high quality Renold and Iwis chain) and the
> quality control complaints went away. Take a look at the name on the
> sprockets and the name on the chain and let me know what they say. FWIW,
> The Ford Motorsport 351C timing sets I've purchased have used the Renold
> chain and the top of the line J.P. Performance sets used the Iwis/Jwis chain.
>
> The sprockets tend to come from Rollmaster (Australia), SA Gear (US but poor
> quality) and Cloyes (US, not pretty but good quality). Avon also makes some
> sprockets but sources others. Dynagear (US) used to make sprockets but went
> out of business. A bunch of the performance aftermarket companies are selling
> the poor quality chain from India (Rolon), along with sprockets from Australia
> (Rollmaster, J.P Performance) or SA gear.
>
> Chain durability testing summary:
>
> Iwis (German) - looks very nice but was not tested, but has excellent
> reputation as an OE supplier, used in high end Rollmaster
> and some high end Cloyes sets
> Cloyes (US) - tested OK
> Renold (France) - tested excellent, used in most high end Cloyes sets but not
> always
> Morse (US and Mexico) - tested excellent
> Daido (Japan) - tested excellent
> Tsubaki (Japan) - tested excellent
> KCM (Japan) - looks very nice but was not tested
> Rolon (India) - failed test
>
> Sprockets:
>
> Rollmaster - Aus - pretty - never examined QA, good reputation
> SA Gear - US - ugly - crappy
> Cloyes - US - not pretty - good QA
> Dynagear - US - out of business - so-so when they existed
> Avon - some sprockets, buys everything else
> Crane - buys everything
> Comp - buys everything
> Speed-Pro - buys everything
> Ebrock - buys everything
> Melling - buys everything
> Elgin - buys everything
>
> Note: Some of the test data was from Speed Pro, other from TRW.
>
> Dan Jones
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 09:28:43 -0700
> From: "doug351c" <doug351c at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ?
> To: "B Hower" <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <NGBBJDKLOLBENCGCLNBFGEDCNNAA.doug351c at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Does it have any description info on the box? You want to stay away from
> nylon cam gears or chains that aren't either "double-roller" or "true
> roller". If you decide not to use it and by a different one, let me know
> and I'll send you the info I've collected on timing sets. Standard sets
> won't have more than one keyway on the crank sprocket while performance sets
> with provide multiple keyways for indexing the cam.
>
> The 220-3121 has been replaced by the 3121R but it looks like Dallas Mustang
> Parts still has some NOS sets to sell:
> http://www.dallasmustang.com/product.php?productid=8425&cat=135&page=1
> You could call and ask them if they know any more about them especially what
> type and brand the chain is.
>
> Doug Braun
> blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of B Hower
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 6:29 AM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Timing Kit/Speed-Pro 220-3121 for 351C ?
>
>
> Hi All,
> ?
> While digging through my collection of things to rebuild an engine (to
> replace the "7 Banger"), I found a 15 year old -?new in the box -?Sealed
> Power Speed-Pro 220-3121
> timing chain set for a 351C.
> ?
> Is there any know pros or cons to this set?
> ?
> Thanks,
> ?
> Bud #3400
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:42:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Quite around here...
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <572152.39826.qm at web161812.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> It's pretty quite on the list. Everyone must be in Reno (or on their way).
>
> I hope someone starts posting pictures and video from the various Fun Rally events so those of us stuck at home can live
> vicariously through our friends' adventures!
>
> Happy Trails!
> Garth
> #4033
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Peter Kovacs <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quite around here...
> To: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>, DeTomaso Mail List
> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <356718.4774.qm at web65103.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Please do. Us 'po' folk don't want to feel neglected.
> ?
> Peter Kovacs
> 209 345-6708
> 209?436-2000 fx
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 12:42:22 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Quite around here...
>
> It's pretty quite on the list. Everyone must be in Reno (or on their way).
>
> I hope someone starts posting pictures and video from the various Fun Rally
> events so those of us stuck at home can live
> vicariously through our friends' adventures!
>
> Happy Trails!
> Garth
> #4033
> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <708859.67143.qm at web126105.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm not getting any electricity from the ignition switch to the starter. Is this a do it yourself job? Just put in Jon Haas ignition module but no go.
> ?
> Suggestions?
> ?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 18:17:33 -0400
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>, DeTomaso Forum
> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTik4QL+gXZKhEj8fsw95hG-cJZst4w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> did u jiggle key around, remove excess weigh from fob?
> On Jun 10, 2011 4:32 PM, "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not getting any electricity from the ignition switch to the starter.
> Is this a do it yourself job? Just put in Jon Haas ignition module but no
> go.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:35:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <706273.71627.qm at web126110.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> It's not that. I'm pretty sure that it is a break in the wire, no continuity.
> ?
> Mark
>
> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com>, "DeTomaso Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 6:17 PM
>
>
>
> did u jiggle key around, remove excess weigh from fob?
>
> On Jun 10, 2011 4:32 PM, "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not getting any electricity from the ignition switch to the starter. Is this a do it yourself job? Just put in Jon Haas ignition module but no go.
>> ?
>> Suggestions?
>> ?
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:55:48 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com, mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <153399.388.qm at web125418.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Mark,
> "Jiggling" is a common diagnostic technique for ignition switch debugging. ?The switch does go bad and you can sometimes get it to intermittently work with the proper amount of jiggling. ?Just a test.
> The next thing to do is grab an ohm meter and check for continuity between the start terminal on the switch and the starter solenoid. (battery disconnected)
> John
>
> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 3:35 PM
>
> It's not that. I'm pretty sure that it is a break in the wire, no continuity.
> ?
> Mark
>
> --- On Fri, 6/10/11, michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com>, "DeTomaso Forum" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 6:17 PM
>
>
>
> did u jiggle key around, remove excess weigh from fob?
>
> On Jun 10, 2011 4:32 PM, "mark skwarek" <ehpantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not getting any electricity from the ignition switch to the starter. Is this a do it yourself job? Just put in Jon Haas ignition module but no go.
>> ?
>> Suggestions?
>> ?
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:57:42 -0400 (EDT)
> From: SOBill at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] no electricity from switch to starter
> To: ehpantera at yahoo.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <ad0ad.f395e08.3b240976 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Mark,
>
> In my experience, the lest reliable parts of electrical systems are the
> connections ..... not the wires.
>
> Either the ignition switch internals, the connections to-from the terminal
> strip or the connections at the starter solenoid ...... you get the idea.
>
> The best method of finding the problem is verify that voltage exists at
> each junction point. Start at the final destination and work back toward the
> source. Why start at the final destination? ..... the starter solenoid
> might be the problem.
>
> What tool to use? A small, inexpensive digital multimeter ...... you can
> measure voltage and resistance. These are available at any auto parts sore,
> electronics store, Amazon (DT830B ~$10), Harbor Freight (#37772 ~$20). I
> prefer non-autoranging meters. I have never seen a trouble lamp ...........
> one of these things with a probe, an alligator clip, and a light bulb that
> wasn't so cheaply made that it was more likely to be the source of trouble
> itself.
>
> Then you need to understand how the electrical circuit works. All the
> basic, individual Pantera electrical circuits are available at
> _http://www.panteraplace.com/page107.htm_ (http://www.panteraplace.com/page107.htm) .
>
> Have fun today,
>
> sobill at aol.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:02:36 -0400
> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Quite around here...
> To: Peter Kovacs <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>, Garth Rodericks
> <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=vOUziuZeUXwGpjUJkqXneLBGucw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Your not all alone.
> Boyd
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Peter Kovacs <peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>> Please do. Us 'po' folk don't want to feel neglected.
>>
>> Peter Kovacs
>> 209 345-6708
>> 209 436-2000 fx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
>> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 12:42:22 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Quite around here...
>>
>> It's pretty quite on the list. Everyone must be in Reno (or on their way).
>>
>> I hope someone starts posting pictures and video from the various Fun Rally
>> events so those of us stuck at home can live
>> vicariously through our friends' adventures!
>>
>> Happy Trails!
>> Garth
>> #4033
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 83, Issue 11
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