[DeTomaso] Longchamp header tech

[Mikael]

I've narrowed it down to Doug's, and found a set that might maybe fit (short
ones). I've written them that I need a picture of the actual product not a
generic picture and measurements. Let's see if they want to sell something
or just sit there surfing for porn...

Strange how some of the shorties on the right side exit straight back, in
the Longchamp that would mean having the exhaust enter the cabin through the
glove compartment...

Mikael
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Mikael [mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk] 
Sendt: 17. august 2011 13:51
Til: 'Daniel C Jones'; detomaso at realbig.com
Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp header tech

Thanks Dan
" I only see Clippsters for Windsors. ", here are some for Cleveland,
http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/part_number=H8435/591.0.1.1
They have a brochure that shows the dimensions like this:
Overall width (L/R): 4½/5, Overall height: 9/4, Overall length: 16/20½. I
don't think there's room for them.

I have 2V heads, and don't expect tons of power from this daily driver
automatic, but I've always learned that the best bang for the buck for
starting to get a little performance is headers. Plus iron exhaust keeps
leaking and have a crack. Engine is otherwise orig except slightly wilder
cam, performer intake and Summit carb.

I don't mind spending some time on welding and trial and error, but I know
that every tube I bend/cut/reweld will be more restrictive than intended.

Choosing headers based on the pictures and a slide rule is not easy,
especially when the manufacturer writes " This image may or may not
represent the actual product.":-)

Mikael

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Daniel C Jones [mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com]
Sendt: 16. august 2011 22:08
Til: detomaso at realbig.com
Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] Longchamp header tech

> Here's the question: Last time I read about tube length, long tubes 
> were for torque and power in the 1500-5000 rpm band (depending on 
> thickness and
> length) while shorties were for high rpm.

Shorties are generally for fitment.  Long tube headers are generally better
across most of the RPM range.

> But looking at a test on the web, the clipsters and the long tube are 
> almost the same on both torque and HP.

I'd have to see the test and know the specifics of the engine and the
headers tested.  If you know what to do, it's easy to bias the outcome.  For
instance, a restrictive muffler can negate the differences between certain
headers and the type (design) of muffler can alter the apparent header
collector dimensions.
In my testing of Pantera headers versus long tube Mustang headers on a 351C
and 408C engines equipped with both 4V and CHI heads, the difference in peak
power on the street cammed engines was minor but the long tubes made better
peak torque and were better in the low and mid RPM ranges, providing more
area under the curve.  Vizard's testing indicated that bank separated
4-into-1 headers show similar performance for primary lengths between 24 and
36 inches.  Things are more sensitive to collector lengths (and diameter),
as well as the mufflers.

> I can't buy Cleveland headers that will just fit, I probably have to 
> modify a bit. In the spirit of minimizing the modifications I surfed 
> Summit and saw something that didn't exist last time I bought headers:
> clipsters, something between the normal long tube headers and the 
> shorties. I think they would be a lot easier to fit.

I only see Clippsters for Windsors.  In addition to the usual Mustang
headers, look for Australian Ford headers, street rod headers, engine swap
headers, truck headers, 351C tri-y designs, block huggers, Cobra replica
headers, etc.
Swap headers for the narrow shock tower 1965 and 1966 Mustangs might be of
interest.  There are a couple of designs.  FPA (Ford Power Applications) has
a 4-into-1:

 http://www.fordpowertrain.com/FPAindex/headers1.htm

There are a couple of companies making cross-over headers that have one tube
from each bank

 http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/engine/fordv8/cleve/cleve.htm

The ones I have are from Tubular Automotive.  These allow the headers to fit
in a tight engine bay.

Castle in Australia makes an interesting tri-y 351C header:

 http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1073850915/Tri-Y+headers-

Pacemaker is also in Australia:

 http://www.pacemaker.com.au/ford_falcon_v8_xr-xf.html

Not sure if Doug Thorley makes tri-ys for Clevelands but it would be worth
checking.  Sanderson makes block hugger, truck (351M/400 have 2V ports) and
street rod headers:

 http://www.sandersonheaders.com/Ford-Cleveland-and-Midland-351C-400M

Dan Jones