[DeTomaso] ZF oil choice?

L GRAY tipo874a at msn.com
Sun Apr 3 21:36:40 EDT 2011


     Asa,
             Sorry if I was misleading in my post but I hope this eliminates any vagueness.

            The Redline does NOT contain the slippery additive( like GM uses in their LS diffs) and  therefore allows for a much greater coefficient of friction which allows for a more positive LS engagement and also a much quicker synchronizer application. Do not let the "NS" ( meaning non slip) letters after the 75-90 fool you.
         I actually had to have the Redline folks confirm and clarify that their "NS" meant that they added nothing to their lube so that the LS would work better.............does that help?
  .............. and yes, the brands of lube that have a limited slip additive will impede the ability of the synchro to lock quickly.  Do not be fooled by the advertising that these additives make your LS work better......what they are really saying is your LS will work more quietly and less harshly ( dependent on your LS % of slip) .
     Through a friend of mine who races in Grand Am , we convinced his team to switch to the Redline NS lube and their synchronizer life went from being replaced every race to 5 races before needing replacement ! 
  ps;         I highlighted the key phrases from your inquiry below.............

                                                                              Les
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Asa Jay Laughton<mailto:asajay at asajay.com> 
  To: detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 2:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF oil choice?


  Les,

  Nice to hear from you.  Thank you for writing.  So now I have to get 
  clarification.

  In your first paragraph, you mention "noted much longer synchronizer 
  life and much better limited slip lock engagement" in relation to using 
  the Redline with a "LACK of the limited slip additive."

  After that I start to get confused if you're saying -other- brands that 
  -do- use a limited slip additive in their diff fluid contain the more 
  slippery stuff that doesn't let synchros work so well.

  i.e. Redline -doesn't- contain the limited slip magic goo and actually 
  helps both the limited slip diff and the synchros work better.

  and...
  Any other brand that -does- contain the limited slip magic goo actually 
  makes it all much "slipperier" and thus contributes to faster synchro wear.

  Did I get that right?  (only because it almost sounded like the Redline 
  was more slippery which contradicted the earlier statements, probably 
  just me reading too fast).

  Asa Jay

  Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
  &  Shelley Marie
  Spokane, WA
  ******************************
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  On 4/3/2011 11:25 AM, L GRAY wrote:
  >        OK guys.............here it goes. I (we) at Vehicle Performance Center here in Arizona where I work , have been using Redline 75-90 NS for the last 15 years in every ZF we service or ones which I rebuild. We have noted much longer synchronizer life and much better limited slip lock engagement with much less "slip" which equates to less heat build up.
  >         The reason is the LACK of the limited slip additive used to quiet down the LS noise/chatter which, as stated , many manufacturers use. This additive DOES NOT enhance limited slip performance , to the contrary .......it degrades the speed at which the limited slip goes to its maximum locking capabilities because it is extremely slippery stuff that will not allow the LS to groan or chatter as it engages ie: customers won't complain about odd noises when they turn their vehicle and the two rear wheels turn at different rates which begins to activate the limited slip.
  >         Now go one step further and guess what this ultra slippery goo does to your synchronizer rings ability to lock up on it's tower?????  Lets see . . . .   slippery stuff - sync slips instead of grabbing - heat goes up - synchronizer ring  degrades more rapidly because of grater slippage and heat generated before it finally grabs and locks up.
  >
  >   The ZF synchronizers require a good bit of friction  as it is being applied by the synchronizer slider ring in order to "grab" the towers and lock up. Too slippery - longer time for the item to fully stop the gear and this will accelerate the speed of synchronizer and tower wear . . . . .  great for my business , bad for your wallet.
  >          I know that some will disagree with me and continue to follow the flock (and that's OK because different opinions are what makes us better and the dialog can lead to more information which can change minds ....even mine!!) but folks, I spoke with the people at Redline on this subject at length years ago and will stand behind using this oil until I take my dying breath.
  >                                                                                      Les Gray
  >                                                                                       02823
  >   ..................................................... incoming ! ! ! ! ! !
  >
  >    ----- Original Message -----
  >    From: JDeRyke at aol.com<mailto:JDeRyke at aol.com<mailto:JDeRyke at aol.com%3Cmailto:JDeRyke at aol.com>>
  >    To: bflesland at gmail.com<mailto:bflesland at gmail.com<mailto:bflesland at gmail.com%3Cmailto:bflesland at gmail.com>>
  >    Cc: detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com%3Cmailto:detomaso at realbig.com>>  ; pantdino at aol.com<mailto:pantdino at aol.com<mailto:pantdino at aol.com%3Cmailto:pantdino at aol.com>>
  >    Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 2:08 PM
  >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF oil choice?
  >
  >
  >    In a message dated 4/2/11 8:36:43 AM, bflesland at gmail.com<mailto:bflesland at gmail.com<mailto:bflesland at gmail.com%3Cmailto:bflesland at gmail.com>>  writes:
  >
  >    >  So does that mean you recommend LS gear oil if your LSD is still intact
  >    >  in the ZF?
  >    >  Cheers Bjoern
  >    >
  >    Yes= always. And a direct quote from Lloyd Butfoy on the subject is, 'Using
  >    'Posi-Lube' (traction additive) in your ZF won't hurt, and may help".
  >    Nowadays in the U.S, most differential lube says "For Posi-type differentials",
  >    which covers the ZF LSD and is handy: no extra additive needed. Note the
  >    additive has nothing to do with the quality of shifting, only the working of the
  >    limited slip clutches. FWIW, many synthetics will leak from older design
  >    transmissions since their seals&  gaskets weren't made to cope with synthetic
  >    oils. Not all leak but its unpredictable until you try. If you get a leak,
  >    drain the stuff and refill with non-synthetic lube; most leaky seals
  >    eventually dry up and stop leaking without rebuilding. Good luck- J Deryke
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