[DeTomaso] Questions on 4v heads

Tue Oct 26 13:27:21 EDT 2010

I'd have to say that is partially right, if the rules or the budget only
allows for so much HP, then the other viable is weight.
That's what F1 cars cost so much, all that carbon fiber is for weight
reduction and why they told Kubica to lose 15lbs last year.
Sometimes you can only do so much.  That's why an Ariel Atom is a monster,
although not because it has a brutal engine, it simple weighs nothing.

But you can't just start taking stuff off, their is always considerations
for balance ( front to rear, side to side ) and strength to absorb
and accidents forces so that your fast and speedy and now super lightweight
car doesn't fold up like an origami paper bird toy.

CF Hood, CF Deck Lid, CF door Skins, lighter seats, lighter (but less
reliable battery)
AL block, Al Heads, no tools, no spare, No trunk insert, No radio, No
Carpet.
No window roll up or down mechanisms, No sun visors, No console,
Lights shocks/springs, some lighter suspension pieces.

It all adds up to one uncomfortable ride that has a marginal advantage,

so it depends upon the use, if you're racing it, go for it, if it';s for the
street and you already have 600hp
, what's the difference, you can't even use the power that you have anyway,
much less making it even more
lethal.

I rarely depress the gas pedal more than 50% down, it just isn't needed.

( Ok, maybe that's almost always true, there are times that my sagging
spirits NEED to
stomp it, even if it's just for 3 seconds on an exit ramp )

Michael Shortt

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:

> My intake stuffers are one piece, so no risk of becoming loose.  I have not
> installed them yet, but think I remember reading that they act as gaskets.
>  The exhaust are mounted with a regular exhaust gasket on each side of the
> plate.  Last weekend, I had to add three new exhaust manifold bolts to
> replace the ones that went AWOL.  I'll admit it was probably my fault for
> not going back and re-tightening them a few weeks after I initially
> installed the headers.
>
> I've heard people say that 10HP is like removing 100 lbs of dead weight.
>  If
> you could remove 200 lbs from your car, would you do it?
>
> Rob
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:00 PM, <wkooiman at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > You guys didn't mention the negatives.
> >
> > The intake port stuffers can come lose and cause damage or at a minimum,
> > block flow and cause you to have to take it apart to fix.  Is it likely?
> >  Probably not, but it's something to worry about.
> >
> > What about leaks?  I don't know how well these things fit.  Can they
> cause
> > intake manifold or header leaks?  I don't know.  Maybe.
> >
> > What about hurting performance?  It's possible that these devices will
> hurt
> > performance.
> >
> > I honestly don't know if these are valid concerns.  If it were me,
> though,
> > I'd focus on the easy/proven horsepower techniques.  You will never feel
> > 10-20hp with your butt-o-meter.  You WILL feel pain if a 20hp gadget
> fails.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: cengles at cox.net
> > >Sent: Oct 25, 2010 1:07 PM
> > >To: JDeRyke at aol.com
> > >Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> > >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Questions on 4v heads
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear Jack,
> > >
> > >About twenty years ago I used MPG intake and exhaust port plates. While
> I
> > thought that they made more power, that was mostly a hope and a guess and
> it
> > was never measured. In my review of exhaust port plates, they are usually
> > described as improving exhaust flow and they usually *imply* improved
> power,
> > but I could never find any dyno evidence of actual benefit.
> > >
> > >Recently Dan Jones' Great 351C Dyno project actually tested the MPG
> > Stinger Port "plates". They are bronze and have a solid tongue or stinger
> of
> > brass that sits low on the floor of the exhaust port. Dan's dyno testing
> > showed (I am going on memory here and I have slept since he posted it)
> only
> > about 5 horsepower improvement. It was way less than 20 hp.
> > >
> > >I think that properly used with a complimentary intake manifold and cam,
> > intake port stuffers can give an honest 20-30 hp. I think that the HP
> > benefits with the exhaust port stuffers is much more modest. [....but
> five
> > hp *is* hp....]. Cost per the MPG website is $90 for a set of
> intake&exhaust
> > stainless steel port plates and $175 for a set of Exhaust Stinger Port
> > Plates. Again, as I glanced at the website they allege 20 hp and 20
> ft-lbs
> > improvement with their steel set, but not dyno sheets are shown nor
> > provided...........
> > >
> > >Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> > >
> > >
> > >---- JDeRyke at aol.com wrote:
> > >> In a message dated 10/25/10 7:19:04 AM, dave at damardirect.com writes:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi Jack,
> > >> > What is your opinion on exhaust port plates? W/o intake port
> stuffers?
> > >> >
> > >> Never actually used either; I got lucky in 1990 and found a lightly
> used
> > >> pair of SVO aluminum heads that already had closed chambers,
> adjustable
> > >> valvetrain and raised ports. Generalizations are worth what you pay
> for
> > them ($0
> > >> here), but my understanding on 351-Cs is,
> > >> 1)- intake port stuffers can make maybe 20-30 bhp extra (~10%) on a
> real
> > >> 350+bhp engine, at some rpm levels, depending on the intake & carb
> > they're
> > >> paired with.
> > >> 2)- Exhaust plates do less than intakes but can pick up maybe 10-20
> more
> > >> bhp (~3-5%) on a real 350+ horse engine, again over certain rpm
> levels.
> > Lots
> > >> of caveats- including starting with closed-chamber iron heads,
> > semi-equal
> > >> length headers and more open exhausts than stock Ansas. There are 2
> > designs I'm
> > >> aware of: cast-stainless or cast-bronze to take the heat, and are
> > bolt-ons
> > >> between the heads and header flanges, not welded, pinned or glued.
> > >> Port plates are Band-Aids for head design problems. Both intake or
> > exhaust
> > >> plates need replacement or at least tuning of other engine parts for
> > most
> > >> drivers to even notice them except that they may change the exhaust
> > note. A
> > >> couple of vendors sell these; I'd call around and ask them what effect
> > they've
> > >> seen on something like your engine- and have a parts list handy 'cause
> > they
> > >> will ask whats in there. FWIW- J DeRyke
> > >> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
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-- 

Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390

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