[DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue toown a gun needs to read this! NOW!!

Fri Oct 22 10:13:49 EDT 2010

Sorry for dragging this on, but...

I agree, except that I don't think the issue is liberal politicians wanting
to protect themselves.  There may be some of that, i.e. Nazi Germany, but I
don't think that's the case in the U.S. - at least not yet.

Gun control laws exist in the U.S. because a section of the public believes
that gun control laws reduce violence.  They support politicians, either
through voting or by voicing their concerns in the media, and then the
politicians push for more laws.

Take a look at every high profile shooting that has occurred in the last 20
years.  After nearly every one, the public says they want more gun control
laws.  They neglect to mention that the bad guy broke many gun control laws
in committing the crime.  What would more laws do?

If you look at how gun control laws affect other countries, you'll see that
they make crime much worse.  Mexico is a perfect example.  Mexico has very
strict gun control.  The drug cartels control the border towns, the media,
the politicians, and the police departments.  You could argue that they can
only exercise their grip on the country by using guns purchased in the U.S.,
and that's probably a fair assessment, but they can only purchase U.S. guns
by violating U.S. gun control laws.  i.e. gun control laws are ineffective.

If we were to eliminate all guns from the U.S. and Mexico, Mexican drug
gangs would just get their guns somewhere else.  You would have to eliminate
guns from the planet.

Even if you could eliminate all guns, you'd have to eliminate the knowledge
about how to build a gun.  I doubt very seriously that a section of the
public or any politician believes that's a viable option.  It's just too
stupid.

BTW, I don't own a gun, and I'm not in the NRA.

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Ken Green
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:31 PM
To: detomaso at realbig.com; Pantdino
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue
toown a gun needs to read this! NOW!!

Ya, but the psychopaths, convicted jewelry store robbers, rapists, and
released killers are going to kill you with or without a gun.  They do it
every day.  Australia basically banned gun ownership, and violent home
invasions increased significantly.  When criminals know that victims are
disarmed, they know they are safe to come and get you.

I personally know a couple people who were approached by bad guys intending
violence. My friends showed that they were armed (no shots fired), and the
bad guys walked away.  If you don't want a firearm that's your business, but
it's wrong for you to tell people (who probably don't live in the kind of
neighborhood you live in) that they cannot defend themselves.  You can argue
all you want the Hand Gun Control Inc. just wants to keep guns from the bad
guys, but if you listen to what they say, they basically want to eventually
take all guns away from private citizens, and everything they do is a step
in that direction.  First they need to know where all the guns are
(registration), then they want to go after them.  It's happened that way
over and over again in other countries.

Bottom line is that it's not about gun control, it's about BIG government
controlling people.  Politicians, and especially liberal politicians, don't
feel good about an armed public. 

Ken

--- On Thu, 10/21/10, Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:

From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to
own a gun needs to read this! NOW!!
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 9:07 PM

The point he is making is that ANYONE can buy a gun without difficulty. 
Psychopaths, convicted jewelry store robbers and rapists, released killers.

As long as people can buy guns that way, all the waiting periods and
background checks are just a waste of time and money.  He is pointing out
that the system of controlling who gets a gun is a sham.  

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: LARRY KELSEY <falconsimage at msn.com>
To: John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com>; chrisvkimball at msn.com;
fresnofinches at aol.com; pantdino at aol.com; cuvee at sbcglobal.net;
bob at dodgecarroll.com; b.hower3400 at yahoo.com; hoppe1 at cox.net;
apache34 at embarqmail.com; Mad Dawg <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 21, 2010 7:29 pm
Subject: RE: NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to own a gun
needs to read this! NOW!!

Dawg, JB, others,

Did I get this right?  If you work for the Brady Campaign and are secretly
filming, It's perfectly all right to buy guns for cash with no ID and no
paperwork and no background check.  BUT if I want to do the same thing it is
somehow wrong?
Hell, I'm joining the Brady group, getting me a button video cam and buying
me some guns too!  Anybody want me to buy them anything?

This guy is convinced that guns make him unsafe, especially if they are sold
without a background check.  He bought several guns...are we less safe now
that he bought them?  He spent the whole day with gun fanciers and in a
building with probably thousands of guns.  Did anybody shoot him?  Did
anybody even shoot AT him?  Was he inherently unsafe?  Was his life in
danger?  He doesn't say but the answer is no. What a putz.

The other Larry, not the anti-gun Larry.

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:56:09 -0700
From: gndplne at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to own a gun
needs to read this! NOW!!
To: chrisvkimball at msn.com; fresnofinches at aol.com; pantdino at aol.com;
cuvee at sbcglobal.net; bob at dodgecarroll.com; falconsimage at msn.com;
b.hower3400 at yahoo.com; hoppe1 at cox.net; apache34 at embarqmail.com;
teampantera at yahoo.com

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
--Edmund Burke

I can't sit quietly.

JB

--- On Thu, 10/21/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Subject: NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to own a gun needs
to read this! NOW!!
To: chrisvkimball at msn.com, fresnofinches at aol.com, "Pantdino"
<pantdino at aol.com>, "Curt Hall" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>, "John Bentley"
<gndplne at yahoo.com>, "Bob Radefeld" <bob at dodgecarroll.com>,
falconsimage at msn.com, "B Hower" <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>, hoppe1 at cox.net,
"Chuck Adkinson" <apache34 at embarqmail.com>
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2010, 5:43 AM

Not on the Pantera List anymore and don't miss it.  Why did you copy me
fokker? ;-]>
Guys like Larry and the anti-gun brigade  who have never been in harms way
don't get it.... and never will. 

Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com

--- On Wed, 10/20/10, John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: John Bentley <gndplne at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to
own a gun needs to read this! NOW!!
To: chrisvkimball at msn.com, fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com,
"Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com>, "Curt Hall" <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "Dennis" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 10:26 PM

WTH?  After being off the list for a couple years, I check back in and its
FresnoLarry telling the masses about the virtues of gun control!  Are you
kidding me?  Wow, do some things never change or what?  Talk about
misinformed or not honest.......where do I begin?

Anyone that really honestly believes the government can take away ALL the
guns is way out in left field. Laws are only followed by the law-abiding
citizens.  Anyone that doesn't believe that should take a ride-along with
their county Sheriff.

NPC

JB

--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to
own a gun needs to read this! NOW!!
To: chrisvkimball at msn.com, fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com,
"Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 9:45 PM

Maybe take away Cell Phones? Now that might save a few traffic accidents!

--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:

From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to
own a gun needs to read this! NOW!!
To: chrisvkimball at msn.com, fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 8:00 PM

I don't think anyone need fear that guns will be taken away, even from
criminals.  The NRA has a very effective lobbying arm and the government is
so ineffectual that it's basically impossible.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
To: fresnofinches at aol.com; Pantera List Serve <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 20, 2010 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to
own a gun needs to read this! NOW!!

K, I hate to get into controversies, but hey, I'll bet there are far more 
eaths and maimings from car accidents than guns.  
If someone had driven a car into President Reagan, would there be a huge
outcry 
o outlaw cars?  In fact, a speeding car crashing into a crowded shopping
center 
ould easily kill more people than a lone gunman with a pistol.
To be specific; there are currently 247,000,000 passenger vehicles in the
USA 
ccording to a 2007 D.O.T. study.  In 2009, there were approximately 34,000 
raffic deaths in this Country.
There are 235,000,000 handguns in the USA.  There are approximately 29,000 
and-gun related deaths each year (give or take a few), and about 17,000 are 
uicides (which, arguably, would occur via some other way if handguns weren't

vailable).
Nevertheless, even counting suicides, there is approximately one gun-related

eath for every 8,103 guns in this country, and one traffic death for every 
,265 cars owned.
Let's outlaw cars!
Chris
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:51:28 -0400
From: fresnofinches at aol.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Anybody that owns a gun or wants to continue to own a
gun 
eeds to read this! NOW!!

Gun shows are found in many cities throughout the year.
Many states have no gun sale regulations. Those that do differ widely in
their 
egulations.
Vendors at gun shows may include both federally licensed and private
sellers.
Federally licensed sellers must adhere to federal regulations.
Private sellers may or may not be required to follow regulations.
Federally licensed sellers do leave a paper trail of sales and this can be 
onitored.
Private sellers do not leave a paper trail.
Laws and regulations can be followed, ignored or bypassed.

Doug stated "a federal study found that gun show sales account for only 2%
of 
he guns used in crimes."
This is laughably inaccurate. By default, any such study can only include 
ecorded sales made at gun shows.
Thus it omits most private gun sales made at these shows. Likewise, it can 
nly include crimes where the
weapon is recovered by law enforcement; surely most crimes are not solved
and 
o weapons are recovered.

Doug is correct when he says Federally licensed dealers must follow all 
egulations, including waiting period regulations,
for all sales in retail locations or at gun shows. However, private sellers 
re not under such regulation in most states. 
Private sellers may make their sales at gun shows, gun clubs, through the 
nternet or any other venue they may choose.
Under most state laws, none of those sales are regulated. 

In 1981 President Reagan narrowly escaped being assassinated by a lone
gunman. 
is Press Secretary Jim Brady was
not so fortunate, and suffered a devastating head wound from one of the 
hooter's exploding bullets. In response, the
Brady Campaign and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence were created. 
heir Mission Statement is simply this:

                          Weare devoted to creating an America free from gun

iolence, where allAmericans are safe at home, at school,
at work, and in our communities.

On April 16, 2007 32 people were killed by a gunman at Virginia Tech. Colin 
oddard was shot four times in that massacre
but did survive. He has taken it upon himself to help assist in closing the 
un show loophole. To this end he works with the
Brady Campaign and visits gun shows carrying cash but no I.D. He easily 
urchases and leaves those shows with guns.

View his YouTube video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q

Anyone who says there is not a gun sales loophole at gun shows (and many
other 
ocations) is either misinformed
or not being honest.

Larry

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