[DeTomaso] Asa Jay's 1985 built 351C Forensics

Sat Nov 27 11:19:07 EST 2010

Great observation John, though I think what you see is just some wetness 
from removing the head.  I'll be sure to inspect the gasket -and- head 
surface thoroughly to determine the validity of your thoughts.  As for 
the plugs, I'm not sure when I replaced them last, so they could have 
been pretty fresh.  I don't know.  I'll try to get better macro shots of 
the plugs later.

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&  Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com

On 11/27/2010 06:30, John Taphorn wrote:
> I initially thought that you must have had a significant oil leak into the
> cylinder.  However, I am less confident of that due to the color of the
> plug.  The color of the plug is light tan and I would fully expect it to be
> black; even with a CD ignition.
>
> Looking at the gasket between cyls 1&  2, in the section below where the
> sealing rings come together, is a sign of the gasket erosion.  I suspect
> that you may have been leaking antifreeze into the cylinder.  Further
> evidence is the rust pitting in the combustion chamber.
>
> Whether, antifreeze would leave that type of residue is beyond my
> experience.  I would simply be surprised to learn that you could burn that
> much oil and have a plug that color.  I've never achieved that color plug
> while burning oil even when switched over to my 7AL.
>
> JT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Asa Jay Laughton"<asajay at asajay.com>
> To:<detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 11:47 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Asa Jay's 1985 built 351C Forensics
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For those who may not remember, I've had a 351C sitting in my garage for
>> some time now waiting on a forensic analysis.  Well, that day started
>> late this afternoon.  First a little background.
>>
>> I built this engine while going through Automotive Technologies at
>> Spokane Community College back in 1985.  The engine was an original 1973
>> 2V in a Ford Mustang Fastback (similar to the Mach I style but -not- a
>> Mach I).  It was a pretty stock rebuild, balanced and sort of
>> blueprinted.   It was bored .030 over, used a .010 under crank, a stock
>> spec cam, lifters, pushrods, etc.  The heads were reconditioned by the
>> students in the Automotive Machine Shop.  I used dished pistons (like
>> those in it to start with), had it all balanced and put it together.
>>
>> It ran great.
>>
>> Within the year I transferred that engine to my present 1971 Mach I
>> Mustang which had just completed bodywork and paint.  It was such a
>> pleasure to drive.
>>
>> A few years later, I came into a set of 4V open chamber heads.  At the
>> time, I couldn't remember if the pistons were dished or flat top, but I
>> talked myself into thinking they were flat top.  I picked up a Ford
>> Motorsport flat tappet camshaft, new lifters, a set of bolt-down roller
>> rockers and found a cast iron 4V intake.  I also found a Holley 4V carb
>> from someone.
>>
>> I had the heads done at a local Cylinder Head machine shop and got
>> started on a parts swap.  I put the new cam, lifters, pushrods rockers,
>> heads, intake and carb on.  I was a bit disappointed by the fact I found
>> dished pistons, but oh well, there I was, broke and needed to get the
>> engine back together by Monday so I could drive to work.
>>
>> It ran sort of great.  Sort of, since I could never quite get it to idle
>> very well and it had terrible off-idle (crossover) performance.  Once at
>> full throttle it ran like a raped ape but getting it there was a bit
>> tricky.  I fooled around with it a bit, ended up swapping the Holley for
>> a Carter AFB and things got a bit better.
>>
>> Eventually, I knew something was wrong and I found a couple of bent
>> pushrods on one side.  Turns out I wiped two lobes off the cam and had
>> dished one lifter so bad it had a hole in the middle.  In went a new cam
>> and lifters, new pushrods and I tried once again to get all the
>> bolt-down rockers "just right."  Have I mentioned I hate bolt-down
>> rockers?
>>
>> It ran good, for a few more years.  Eventually I drove it less and less
>> until one day I lost oil pressure.  So I stopped, conveniently right at
>> a gas station.  I picked up a couple quarts of oil, put them in and
>> drove home with oil pressure again.  The trouble was even before that,
>> it had started to pick up a bit of a knock at certain RPMs.  It wasn't a
>> real bad knock, it was more of a rattle.
>>
>> It idled fine without noise, but give it just a bit of throttle out of
>> gear and it would start to rattle.  A bit more rpm and it would go away
>> again.  It just plain didn't sound good, so I stopped driving it and
>> started collecting parts for the rebuild of 2001.  That rebuild is
>> documented here:
>> http://www.asajay.com/351rebuild/351rebuild.htm
>> and here:
>> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/351C_Build_2001/
>>
>> In 2001 I finished putting the shiny new engine into the Mach I.  It ran
>> great.  I drove it on September 11th to my friends funeral, in uniform.
>> I felt like I had resurrected a dream, yet, I still didn't drive it much
>> and then in early 2002 when I got deployed, it sat for for nearly a year
>> before being driven again.  The old engine, well, it sat on an engine
>> stand just waiting for something.
>>
>> Today I began the forensics on that old engine.  I didn't find any
>> severely bent pushrods or toasted lifters.  granted I've not given all
>> the parts a close inspection yet.  However, I found something -very-
>> interesting when I took the heads off:
>> http://www.351c.info/gallery2/v/asajay/1985buildforensic/
>> A crapload of carbon build-up on cylinder number 2.  I mean a crapload.
>>
>> That's as far as I got tonight.  I'll work on getting the pistons and
>> rods out later, then taking a micrometer to everything and reporting on
>> my findings.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> &   Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>
>>
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