[DeTomaso] ZERO PC - Maxim #1: People vote their pocket book! NPC

michael@michaelshortt.com michaelsavga at gmail.com
Sun Nov 7 22:06:01 EST 2010


Here's my crazy idea, Have the Tea Party folks adopt the Fair Tax plan and
become a real party called the Constitution Party, and crush the other two.

Michael Shortt

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Rob,
>
>     I pretty much agree with you on all of this, but need to point out that
> unless something changes significantly, for all intents and purposes, social
> security and medicare deductions are a federal income tax.  The money we pay
> into it does not go into a fund reserved for us, it just gets spent like the
> rest of federal income tax.
>
>     I hear Republicans talk about the need for major cuts to social
> security benefits, but they better cut all the federal pensions by the same
> percentage along with social security, or it's time for another revolution.
>
> Ken
>
> --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZERO PC - Maxim #1: People vote their pocket book!
> NPC
> To: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, "Larry Finch" <
> fresnofinches at aol.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 2:16 PM
>
>
> Documentation Provided.  The number is actually 47% of Americans do not pay
> Federal Income Tax.  Choose your source.
>
>
> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/47-Percent-Dont-Pay-Taxes-No-Big-Deal-3230
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html
>
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
> <
> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/47-Percent-Dont-Pay-Taxes-No-Big-Deal-3230
> >
>
> On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 3:42 PM, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't want to make this more complicated then it already is but.
> >  Where do you come up with the statistic that says 40% of Americans pay
> no
> > income tax? That's the kind of statement that demands documentation.
> > I am a strong believer in the capitalist system and I am heavily invested
> > in the stock market. I don't have a problem with a corporate officer
> > receiving substantial compensation when they have done a good job and
> made
> > the company and share holders a fair return on their investment. What
> drives
> > me crazy is when CEO's get obscene golden parachutes for running a
> company
> > into the ground. AIG comes to mind. Back in the 70's a friend of mine
> worked
> > for eastern airlines. The company went into bankruptcy and Frank Boreman
> > (the astronaut) was the CEO. He raided the companies pension fund and
> > depleted it leaving the pilots and all the other employees with no
> pensions,
> > yet Mr. Borman walked away with several million dollars in a golden
> > parachute. The list of these examples is endless. If the company makes
> money
> > the share holders should make money and the corporate bigwigs should make
> > money. If the company loses money or worse goes broke the Board members
> > shouldn't be rewarded. In fact they should be required to keep a
> substantial
> > amount of their net worth in stock so if the company fails they will
> suffer
> > along with the rest of the share holders. Like wise their compensation
> > should be tied to increases in the stocks value in the form of stock
> options
> > not by taking huge cash payments or raiding corporate coffers or pension
> > funds.
> >
> > Boyd
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Guys,
> >>
> >>     Just to add one hopefully neutral point, the profits in a business
> are
> >> from two sources:
> >>
> >> 1)  the money you make for your personal labor
> >>
> >> 2)  the return on your investment.
> >>
> >>     Personally, I think the million plus a year compensation some
> >> corporate officers receive is totally unjustified, and a lot of people
> work
> >> just as hard and are just as smart, and make a fraction of that.  But if
> >> someone builds a business over many years and has a huge personal
> investment
> >> in it, I don't a problem with them benefiting from their investment.
> You
> >> might work 20 years and not make much, and then do really well the last
> 10
> >> years to build for retirement.
> >>
> >> Ken
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 11/4/10, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZERO PC - Maxim #1: People vote their pocket
> book!
> >> NPC
> >> To: "Larry Finch" <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> >> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Date: Thursday, November 4, 2010, 10:16 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> Emotions at the door.
> >>
> >> Wow Larry.  That sure was an anti-capitalistic view on corporations. It
> >> sure
> >> sounds familiar.  As an owner of two small businesses and a business
> >> analyst
> >> consultant for many very large corporations that all of you have done
> >> business with, I have an opposing opinion. Based on your response, I'm
> >> assuming you have never run a business. Sorry if that is an incorrect
> >> assumption.
> >>
> >> A common fallacy that "takers" or "have not" mentalities hold is that
> all
> >> businesses should be taxed, especially ones that make lots of revenue
> (not
> >> profit, which is a difference). Running a business and paying payroll
> >> requires a business plan.  In that plan is how to make enough money to
> >> make
> >> the venture survive or hopefully grow, and keep investors interested
> >> (others
> >> or yourself if you own the business). Companies don't really pay taxes.
> >> Introduce unions demands and taxes and in order to meet the business
> plan,
> >> you have to raise your prices or cut your expenses. Cutting expenses
> >> incorrectly has the opposite effect by reducing your ability to raise
> >> revenue.  Raising costs in this way make US businesses not able to
> compete
> >> globally.  Like it or not, Unions have killed education quality and the
> US
> >> auto industry already.  Let the free market manage wages and let OSHA
> >> handle
> >> the safety concerns.
> >>
> >> I have often heard people cry out that companies should be taxed for
> >> moving
> >> jobs overseas.  Remove the existing taxes and they would have little
> >> reason
> >> to move jobs overseas.
> >>
> >> About to rejoin my emotions at the door.
> >>
> >> Rob
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Maxim #1: People vote their pocket book!
> >> > ----------
> >> >
> >> > Not really true.
> >> >
> >> > People vote what they 'feel' is their pocket book.
> >> >
> >> > This feeling is easily manipulated by demonizing the one Special
> >> Interest
> >> > that ultimately
> >> > DOES (and historically always has) improve the bottom line for the
> >> workers
> >> > ---- Unions.
> >> >
> >> > While at the same time martyrizing the diametrically opposed Special
> >> > Interest that
> >> > has arguably zero interest in improving the workers position if it
> >> > interferes in any manner
> >> > with the unbending goal of profit-at-any-cost ---- Corporations.
> >> >
> >> > The use of buzzwords such as higher taxes, government restrictions,
> >> > government regulations, Union Bosses
> >> > and other phrases solely designed to appeal to emotions have (sadly)
> >> been
> >> > shown to be very effective in
> >> > moving the Common Man (which is certainly most of us) to think (and
> >> vote)
> >> > as if he is somehow
> >> > protecting and improving his own position when in fact he is only
> >> > benefiting the corporations.
> >> >
> >> > The in-your-face examples of how true this is are sadly hidden (by
> >> design)
> >> > from most voters by the cloud of
> >> > buzzword phrases heaped onto us with now nearly unlimited
> >> > Corporation-funded advertising campaigns.
> >> >
> >> > NAFTA - Free (not Fair) Trade - outsourcing - downsizing - Pension
> >> Raiders
> >> > - part-time employment with
> >> > thus no benefits - privatizing -  Military Industrial Complex - tax
> >> > loopholes - offshore registering of Corporations -
> >> > S&L scandal - Wall Street Greed...........
> >> >
> >> > The evidence is obvious this all is designed to benefit Corporations,
> >> and
> >> > none of it ever "Trickles Down" to the Common Man.
> >> >
> >> > But the Common Man is easily swayed with slickly-packaged,
> >> > demographically-tuned appeals to his emotions.
> >> >
> >> > And if this continues there will be no Common Man left to remember
> what
> >> the
> >> > American Middle Class used to be.
> >> >
> >> > Larry
> >> >
> >> > P.S. - If you respond to this, try leaving your emotional,
> name-calling
> >> > rants at the door. I did.  ;-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
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>
>
> --
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
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-- 







Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390


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