[DeTomaso] ZERO PC - Maxim #1: People vote their pocket book! NPC

Rob Dumoulin rob at dumoulins.net
Sun Nov 7 17:16:20 EST 2010


Documentation Provided.  The number is actually 47% of Americans do not pay
Federal Income Tax.  Choose your source.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/47-Percent-Dont-Pay-Taxes-No-Big-Deal-3230

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
<http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/47-Percent-Dont-Pay-Taxes-No-Big-Deal-3230>

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 3:42 PM, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't want to make this more complicated then it already is but.
>  Where do you come up with the statistic that says 40% of Americans pay no
> income tax? That's the kind of statement that demands documentation.
> I am a strong believer in the capitalist system and I am heavily invested
> in the stock market. I don't have a problem with a corporate officer
> receiving substantial compensation when they have done a good job and made
> the company and share holders a fair return on their investment. What drives
> me crazy is when CEO's get obscene golden parachutes for running a company
> into the ground. AIG comes to mind. Back in the 70's a friend of mine worked
> for eastern airlines. The company went into bankruptcy and Frank Boreman
> (the astronaut) was the CEO. He raided the companies pension fund and
> depleted it leaving the pilots and all the other employees with no pensions,
> yet Mr. Borman walked away with several million dollars in a golden
> parachute. The list of these examples is endless. If the company makes money
> the share holders should make money and the corporate bigwigs should make
> money. If the company loses money or worse goes broke the Board members
> shouldn't be rewarded. In fact they should be required to keep a substantial
> amount of their net worth in stock so if the company fails they will suffer
> along with the rest of the share holders. Like wise their compensation
> should be tied to increases in the stocks value in the form of stock options
> not by taking huge cash payments or raiding corporate coffers or pension
> funds.
>
> Boyd
>
> On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>>     Just to add one hopefully neutral point, the profits in a business are
>> from two sources:
>>
>> 1)  the money you make for your personal labor
>>
>> 2)  the return on your investment.
>>
>>     Personally, I think the million plus a year compensation some
>> corporate officers receive is totally unjustified, and a lot of people work
>> just as hard and are just as smart, and make a fraction of that.  But if
>> someone builds a business over many years and has a huge personal investment
>> in it, I don't a problem with them benefiting from their investment.  You
>> might work 20 years and not make much, and then do really well the last 10
>> years to build for retirement.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> --- On Thu, 11/4/10, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZERO PC - Maxim #1: People vote their pocket book!
>> NPC
>> To: "Larry Finch" <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Thursday, November 4, 2010, 10:16 AM
>>
>>
>> Emotions at the door.
>>
>> Wow Larry.  That sure was an anti-capitalistic view on corporations. It
>> sure
>> sounds familiar.  As an owner of two small businesses and a business
>> analyst
>> consultant for many very large corporations that all of you have done
>> business with, I have an opposing opinion. Based on your response, I'm
>> assuming you have never run a business. Sorry if that is an incorrect
>> assumption.
>>
>> A common fallacy that "takers" or "have not" mentalities hold is that all
>> businesses should be taxed, especially ones that make lots of revenue (not
>> profit, which is a difference). Running a business and paying payroll
>> requires a business plan.  In that plan is how to make enough money to
>> make
>> the venture survive or hopefully grow, and keep investors interested
>> (others
>> or yourself if you own the business). Companies don't really pay taxes.
>> Introduce unions demands and taxes and in order to meet the business plan,
>> you have to raise your prices or cut your expenses. Cutting expenses
>> incorrectly has the opposite effect by reducing your ability to raise
>> revenue.  Raising costs in this way make US businesses not able to compete
>> globally.  Like it or not, Unions have killed education quality and the US
>> auto industry already.  Let the free market manage wages and let OSHA
>> handle
>> the safety concerns.
>>
>> I have often heard people cry out that companies should be taxed for
>> moving
>> jobs overseas.  Remove the existing taxes and they would have little
>> reason
>> to move jobs overseas.
>>
>> About to rejoin my emotions at the door.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Maxim #1: People vote their pocket book!
>> > ----------
>> >
>> > Not really true.
>> >
>> > People vote what they 'feel' is their pocket book.
>> >
>> > This feeling is easily manipulated by demonizing the one Special
>> Interest
>> > that ultimately
>> > DOES (and historically always has) improve the bottom line for the
>> workers
>> > ---- Unions.
>> >
>> > While at the same time martyrizing the diametrically opposed Special
>> > Interest that
>> > has arguably zero interest in improving the workers position if it
>> > interferes in any manner
>> > with the unbending goal of profit-at-any-cost ---- Corporations.
>> >
>> > The use of buzzwords such as higher taxes, government restrictions,
>> > government regulations, Union Bosses
>> > and other phrases solely designed to appeal to emotions have (sadly)
>> been
>> > shown to be very effective in
>> > moving the Common Man (which is certainly most of us) to think (and
>> vote)
>> > as if he is somehow
>> > protecting and improving his own position when in fact he is only
>> > benefiting the corporations.
>> >
>> > The in-your-face examples of how true this is are sadly hidden (by
>> design)
>> > from most voters by the cloud of
>> > buzzword phrases heaped onto us with now nearly unlimited
>> > Corporation-funded advertising campaigns.
>> >
>> > NAFTA - Free (not Fair) Trade - outsourcing - downsizing - Pension
>> Raiders
>> > - part-time employment with
>> > thus no benefits - privatizing -  Military Industrial Complex - tax
>> > loopholes - offshore registering of Corporations -
>> > S&L scandal - Wall Street Greed...........
>> >
>> > The evidence is obvious this all is designed to benefit Corporations,
>> and
>> > none of it ever "Trickles Down" to the Common Man.
>> >
>> > But the Common Man is easily swayed with slickly-packaged,
>> > demographically-tuned appeals to his emotions.
>> >
>> > And if this continues there will be no Common Man left to remember what
>> the
>> > American Middle Class used to be.
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>> > P.S. - If you respond to this, try leaving your emotional, name-calling
>> > rants at the door. I did.  ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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-- 
Rob DuMoulin
904.476.8744
rob at dumoulins.net



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