[DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment

Julian Kift julian_kift at hotmail.com
Fri May 21 00:22:49 EDT 2010


Steve sent out photo's earlier in the day, stripped for the rest of the list. I temporarily uploaded them to a POCA album here...

 

http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=20551

 

Julian
 
> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 21:02:44 -0700
> From: asajay at asajay.com
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> 
> We need a photo with the wheel off the car. We need to have a good look 
> at the a-arm bushings and the upper ball joint adjustment. It appears 
> the a-arms are moved forward as is possibly the ball joint, from putting 
> all the shims to the rear. We can speculate all we want, but until we 
> have closer photos of the suspension components without the wheel on... 
> well we're all just spinning our wheels.
> 
> Asa Jay
> 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> 
> 
> On 5/20/2010 20:54, Will Kooiman wrote:
> > One thing to consider is the front right might have been rearranged from an
> > accident.
> >
> > I haven't read this entire thread, though. If the misalignment occurred
> > after changing the a-arm, it's probably the a-arm. From the photo, it looks
> > like caster was added in the wrong direction (removed caster).
> >
> > I'm definitely no expert on alignment, but I always thought that when you
> > added caster, the wheel moves back in the wheel well - slightly. Right?
> >
> > And, even if the shim were added on the wrong side, it should just put
> > caster back in the stock range.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> > Behalf Of Julian Kift
> > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:43 PM
> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; steveblum2 at msn.com
> > Cc: guson at home.se; De Tomaso List
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >
> >
> > Rather than use all those individual shims I did same as Johnny and
> > fabricated a spacer out of a 3/4" square piece of aluminum stock and just
> > used the original thin shims for fine adjustment. As the 'shim' is now one
> > piece of stock it is more obvious that it goes in front of the ball joint.
> >
> >
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 23:13:46 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> > From: boyd411 at gmail.com
> > To: steveblum2 at msn.com
> > CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com
> >
> > The word is that he is a first rate ass hole.
> > This is what Johnny Sent me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Alignment specs:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > My car is narrow bodied GTS with 16x8 245/45 front and 17x11 335/35 on the
> > rear.
> > If you have smaller wheels& tyres these specs still apply.
> > On the front I like to run between 6 and 7 degrees of caster (the ally
> > spacer I have made for you will get you in that ball park) It's actually
> > more important to get the caster the same side to side than getting it
> > exactly 5, 6 or 7 degrees. Originally your car could get a maximum or 2,1/2
> > degrees caster. You can now get up to 7 degrees. 7 will give you the most
> > self centring and high speed stability but 6 or 5 degrees will make your
> > steering slightly lighter. You may have to make the ally spacer a bit
> > narrower to get 5 degrees. I run 6 degrees and like it.
> > I set the toe in a 1/16th and the camber at 1/2 a degree negative (in at the
> > top) It's very important to take the car for a drive after each camber
> > change to let the suspension settle and re-check it. The camber lock I have
> > added to your A arm will make this job a lot easier.
> > If you dont get the camber exactly the same either side the car will pull to
> > the left or right under braking.
> >
> > On the rear set the toe in at 0 and the camber at 1/4 -1/2 negative (in at
> > the top) I have mine set at 1/2 and get good tyre life.
> >
> > Regards, Johnny
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:10 PM, STEVEN BLUM<steveblum2 at msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have attempted to contact Pat in the past about the modification to
> > request instructions. He has ignored my calls.
> >
> >
> > Steven Blum
> > P.O. Box 81
> > Shoreham, N.Y. 11786
> > H (631) 744-6118
> > C (631) 235-1905
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > To: steveblum2 at msn.com; guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com
> >
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> > Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:04:42 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I only saw the photo Mike Drew posted of the passenger side with the wheel
> > on, does the driver side look different, further to the rear? You'll have to
> > recheck you toe as well as the a-arms change and movement rearward may have
> > affected that too.
> >
> > We had a discussion about the a-arm mods recently and Pat was quite vocal, I
> > would suggest forwarding the photo's to him for comment in support of his
> > product and whether it has been fitted correctly. My modified a-arms are
> > set up with the ball joint all the way back, no shims at the rear. No
> > instructions as I modified them myself...
> >
> > Goos luck,
> > Julian
> >
> > 
> >> From: steveblum2 at msn.com
> >> To: guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:29:26 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >>
> >>
> >> The A arm modification was done by Pat Michals and supposedly installed
> >> 
> > per his instructions. Somehow I think either the shop did not understand his
> > instructions or he gave them the wrong instructions. I think it waqs the
> > shop but cannot be sure as hey never gave me his instructions when I picked
> > up the car. They said they were misplaced. Are you sure that the shims on
> > both sides are wrong? I can uderstand the right side but if I move the
> > drivers side to the front won't the whell be to far back?
> > 
> >> Steven Blum
> >> P.O. Box 81
> >> Shoreham, N.Y. 11786
> >> H (631) 744-6118
> >> C (631) 235-1905
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>> From: guson at home.se
> >>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 23:59:55 +0200
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >>>
> >>> A close-up pic of the A-arms in the wheel well would be nice to see.
> >>> 
> > With
> > 
> >>> the wheel removed that is.
> >>>
> >>> Tomas
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> >>> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Julian Kift
> >>> Sent: den 20 maj 2010 22:59
> >>> To: steveblum2 at msn.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; De Tomaso List
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I see you have the modified upper a-arms to improve your caster. To take
> >>> advantge of that the ball joint (and wheel) should be moved rearwards by
> >>> ideally locating all the shims in front of the ball joint. Once done,
> >>> 
> > get
> > 
> >>> the shop to fine tune using a caster gauge to get the two sides equal by
> >>> varying shims.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What I don't understand at present is the way you currently have the
> >>> 
> > shims
> > 
> >>> would be about right for stock caster, but a stock car would not have
> >>> 
> > the
> > 
> >>> wheel that far forward in the fender. Do you know who undertook the
> >>> modification to the a-arms?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Julian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: steveblum2 at msn.com
> >>> To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:16:30 -0400
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Attached are photos of both sides. The shims on both sides are to the
> >>> 
> > rear
> > 
> >>> so that looks good. When I get it on the alignment rack i need to
> >>> 
> > compare
> > 
> >>> wheelbase measurements, it looks like I need to move some right side
> >>> 
> > shims.
> > 
> >>> Steven Blum
> >>> P.O. Box 81
> >>> Shoreham, N.Y. 11786
> >>> H (631) 744-6118
> >>> C (631) 235-1905
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >>> To: mikeldrew at aol.com; steveblum2 at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:15:55 -0700
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> That is a lot of forward shift, more than one would imagine possible
> >>> 
> > through
> > 
> >>> the bushing orientation or having the ball joint shims on the wrong
> >>> 
> > side, or
> > 
> >>> both. This might be a dumb question, but were both sides apart at the
> >>> 
> > same
> > 
> >>> time, is there any chance that they got the a-arm sides or orientation
> >>> 
> > mixed
> > 
> >>> up? e.g. an upside down upper a-arm would have significant forward shift
> >>> 
> > of
> > 
> >>> the upper ball joint.
> >>>
> >>> Can you take a photo of the suspension arms with the wheel removed?
> >>>
> >>> Julian
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >>>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:34:58 -0400
> >>>> To: steveblum2 at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> In a message dated 5/20/10 8 22 49, steveblum2 at msn.com writes:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 
> >>>>> I recently found what I suspect is a problem with the front end.
> >>>>> Aparently when I had the suspension bushings changed the new ones
> >>>>> 
> > were
> > 
> >>> installed
> >>> 
> >>>>> wrong causing an alignment problem. My question is, how much of a
> >>>>> 
> >>> project is
> >>> 
> >>>>> it to disassemble the front end, correct the busing and reassemble
> >>>>> 
> > the
> > 
> >>>>> front end? Is this a job only for an experienced mechanic or someone
> >>>>> 
> >>> with
> >>> 
> >>>>> mechanical skills but limited experience can handle? What special
> >>>>> 
> > tools
> > 
> >>> are
> >>> 
> >>>>> required?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 
> >>>> Another point--when your front end was reassembled, all the shims etc.
> >>>> should have gone towards the front side of the upper ball joint,
> >>>> 
> > pushing
> > 
> >>> it
> >>> 
> >>>> relatively rearwards. It's possible that they were put towards the
> >>>> 
> > back
> > 
> >>> side,
> >>> 
> >>>> which would totally jack up your alignment and contribute to the
> >>>> 
> > problem
> > 
> >>>> you're having.
> >>>>
> >>>> You should post the photo you sent me so people can see what we're
> >>>> 
> > talking
> > 
> >>>> about. Or better yet, I will:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/22olpcz
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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