[DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment

Thu May 20 23:54:16 EDT 2010

One thing to consider is the front right might have been rearranged from an
accident.

I haven't read this entire thread, though.  If the misalignment occurred
after changing the a-arm, it's probably the a-arm.  From the photo, it looks
like caster was added in the wrong direction (removed caster).

I'm definitely no expert on alignment, but I always thought that when you
added caster, the wheel moves back in the wheel well - slightly.  Right?

And, even if the shim were added on the wrong side, it should just put
caster back in the stock range.

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Julian Kift
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:43 PM
To: boyd411 at gmail.com; steveblum2 at msn.com
Cc: guson at home.se; De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment

Rather than use all those individual shims I did same as Johnny and
fabricated a spacer out of a 3/4" square piece of aluminum stock and just
used the original thin shims for fine adjustment. As the 'shim' is now one
piece of stock it is more obvious that it goes in front of the ball joint.

Julian

Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 23:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
From: boyd411 at gmail.com
To: steveblum2 at msn.com
CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com

The word is that he is a first rate ass hole.
This is what Johnny Sent me.

Alignment specs:

My car is narrow bodied GTS with 16x8 245/45 front and 17x11 335/35 on the
rear.
If you have smaller wheels & tyres these specs still apply.
On the front I like to run between 6 and 7 degrees of caster (the ally
spacer I have made for you will get you in that ball park) It's actually
more important to get the caster the same side to side than getting it
exactly 5, 6 or 7 degrees. Originally your car could get a maximum or 2,1/2
degrees caster. You can now get up to 7 degrees. 7 will give you the most
self centring and high speed stability but 6 or 5 degrees will make your
steering slightly lighter. You may have to make the ally spacer a bit
narrower to get 5 degrees. I run 6 degrees and like it. 
I set the toe in a 1/16th and the camber at 1/2 a degree negative (in at the
top) It's very important to take the car for a drive after each camber
change to let the suspension settle and re-check it. The camber lock I have
added to your A arm will make this job a lot easier.
If you dont get the camber exactly the same either side the car will pull to
the left or right under braking.

On the rear set the toe in at 0 and the camber at 1/4 -1/2 negative (in at
the top) I have mine set at 1/2 and get good tyre life.

Regards, Johnny

On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:10 PM, STEVEN BLUM <steveblum2 at msn.com> wrote:

I have attempted to contact Pat in the past about the modification to
request instructions. He has ignored my calls.

Steven Blum
P.O. Box 81
Shoreham, N.Y. 11786
H (631) 744-6118
C (631) 235-1905

From: julian_kift at hotmail.com
To: steveblum2 at msn.com; guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com

Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:04:42 -0700

Steve,

I only saw the photo Mike Drew posted of the passenger side with the wheel
on, does the driver side look different, further to the rear? You'll have to
recheck you toe as well as the a-arms change and movement rearward may have
affected that too.

We had a discussion about the a-arm mods recently and Pat was quite vocal, I
would suggest forwarding the photo's to him for comment in support of his
product and whether it has been fitted correctly.  My modified a-arms are
set up with the ball joint all the way back, no shims at the rear. No
instructions as I modified them myself...

Goos luck,
Julian

> From: steveblum2 at msn.com
> To: guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:29:26 -0400
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
>
>
> The A arm modification was done by Pat Michals and supposedly installed
per his instructions. Somehow I think either the shop did not understand his
instructions or he gave them the wrong instructions. I think it waqs the
shop but cannot be sure as hey never gave me his instructions when I picked
up the car. They said they were misplaced. Are you sure that the shims on
both sides are wrong? I can uderstand the right side but if I move the
drivers side to the front won't the whell be to far back?
>
> Steven Blum
> P.O. Box 81
> Shoreham, N.Y. 11786
> H (631) 744-6118
> C (631) 235-1905
>
>
>
>
> > From: guson at home.se
> > To: detomaso at realbig.com
> > Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 23:59:55 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >
> > A close-up pic of the A-arms in the wheel well would be nice to see.
With
> > the wheel removed that is.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> > [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Julian Kift
> > Sent: den 20 maj 2010 22:59
> > To: steveblum2 at msn.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; De Tomaso List
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> >
> >
> > I see you have the modified upper a-arms to improve your caster. To take
> > advantge of that the ball joint (and wheel) should be moved rearwards by
> > ideally locating all the shims in front of the ball joint. Once done,
get
> > the shop to fine tune using a caster gauge to get the two sides equal by
> > varying shims.
> >
> >
> >
> > What I don't understand at present is the way you currently have the
shims
> > would be about right for stock caster, but a stock car would not have
the
> > wheel that far forward in the fender. Do you know who undertook the
> > modification to the a-arms?
> >
> >
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> > From: steveblum2 at msn.com
> > To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; mikeldrew at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> > Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:16:30 -0400
> >
> >
> >
> > Attached are photos of both sides. The shims on both sides are to the
rear
> > so that looks good. When I get it on the alignment rack i need to
compare
> > wheelbase measurements, it looks like I need to move some right side
shims.
> >
> > Steven Blum
> > P.O. Box 81
> > Shoreham, N.Y. 11786
> > H (631) 744-6118
> > C (631) 235-1905
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > To: mikeldrew at aol.com; steveblum2 at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> > Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:15:55 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > That is a lot of forward shift, more than one would imagine possible
through
> > the bushing orientation or having the ball joint shims on the wrong
side, or
> > both. This might be a dumb question, but were both sides apart at the
same
> > time, is there any chance that they got the a-arm sides or orientation
mixed
> > up? e.g. an upside down upper a-arm would have significant forward shift
of
> > the upper ball joint.
> >
> > Can you take a photo of the suspension arms with the wheel removed?
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > > Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:34:58 -0400
> > > To: steveblum2 at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alingment
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 5/20/10 8 22 49, steveblum2 at msn.com writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I recently found what I suspect is a problem with the front end.
> > > > Aparently when I had the suspension bushings changed the new ones
were
> > installed
> > > > wrong causing an alignment problem. My question is, how much of a
> > project is
> > > > it to disassemble the front end, correct the busing and reassemble
the
> > > > front end? Is this a job only for an experienced mechanic or someone
> > with
> > > > mechanical skills but limited experience can handle? What special
tools
> > are
> > > > required?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Another point--when your front end was reassembled, all the shims etc.
> > > should have gone towards the front side of the upper ball joint,
pushing
> > it
> > > relatively rearwards. It's possible that they were put towards the
back
> > side,
> > > which would totally jack up your alignment and contribute to the
problem
> > > you're having.
> > >
> > > You should post the photo you sent me so people can see what we're
talking
> > > about. Or better yet, I will:
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/22olpcz
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > _______________________________________________
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