[DeTomaso] Sway Bar Mounts on A-arms

Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Sun May 9 09:20:10 EDT 2010


Woodhouse had a swaybar setup that would do just that. Dunno' if anybody still sells them or not.
And, from what I had heard, it wasn't cheap either... Try Cory Gelling? I don't even know if he still messes with Pantera stuff.

By the way, don't take my word for 'gospel'.... just giving you my experience. 
The pro racers obviously should know what they're talking about!
:-)

Regards,
Kirby

On 9 May 2010, at 7:53 AM, boyd casey wrote:

> I can't argue with you or agree with you because I have no practical experience to draw from. My concerns are strictly the result of the input from my advisor (who has lots of actual experience on the race track as both a driver and fabricator (although little or none of it comes from Panteras, although I don't think that is a concerning issue at this time.) Gorans statement about worrying more about making the sway bar adjustable instead of worrying about absolutes has peaked my curiosity. How does one go about making it adjustable?
> Boyd
> 
> On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Boyd,
> 
> Interesting....
> 
> I've been using 1" sway bars front and rear with the plastic heim joints on my Pantera since the late 80's.
> All the bushings are polyurethane and I have the Hall chassis rigidity kit installed.
> 
> I really like the combination of them all and found the 1" sway bars very good on the track, especially when running slicks, and on the street with wide tires.
> 
> I've taken my car on long trips and, from 1996 until 2001, I used to drive the car every day to work and back, generally used it as an everyday driver in addition to its weekends on the track. I never felt I had any situations where it might be dangerous on the street.
> 
> Unless I've never driven on a road surface bad enough to cause a problem... Houston's concrete streets with pot holes, bumps, bad repair jobs and general unevenness due to settling are pretty bad though...
> 
> I personally feel this issue might not be as bad as thought...
> 
> FWIW,
> Kirby
> 
> 
> 
> On 8 May 2010, at 11:36 PM, boyd casey wrote:
> 
> > That's basically what I am doing. I got poly graphite bushings that I am
> > using for all my a-arm
> > bushings and rubber bushings for my sway bars. I was just about to order a
> > pair of heim ball ends for my rear sway bars and my advisor ( this gut is a
> > designer custom fabricator, used to own his own sprint car team and had a
> > business that designed and fabricated turbbo charger and super charger
> > systems. He has scales and knows how to set up a suspension for full race
> > and how to set up suspwnsion for street cars and everything inbetween. I am
> > having my front upper a-rms modified by johnny woods and he is doing the
> > modification that increaseses the available caster from the stock 2.5
> > degress up to the 7.00 degress and they have a built in camber lock. He told
> > me that going with heim balls on the end of my rear sway bars would transfer
> > all the body roll from the whell on one side all the wat to the opposite
> > whell and could cause a dangerous situation in a street situation where the
> > road surfcae is less then perfect. Since I will be driving mostly on the
> > street I need to balance that with the ability to adjust the suspension for
> > the track WHEN I NEED IT!. The way he explained it it is better toset up for
> > the street and hve to run on the track then to be set up for the track and
> > run on rough street conditions. The rough conditions can cause one to lose
> > control .
> > Boyd
> >
> > On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Boyd,
> >>
> >>
> >>         I am no expert, but I think your friend is right.
> >>
> >>         Another point for the rubber bushings was Bob Woodhouse's
> >> recommendation to use poly urethane all around the suspension *except* for
> >> the front sway bar mounts.   FWIW.
> >>
> >>
> >>                Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of boyd casey
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:20 PM
> >> To: JDeRyke at aol.com
> >> Cc: tborcich at msn.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sway Bar Mounts on A-arms
> >>
> >> I was discussing my suspension modifications and build today with a friend
> >> of mine from my car club who is an expert at race car building and set up
> >> and I mentioned my desire to install 1" sway bars and heim joints. I was
> >> told that this would be ideal for the race track but could cause serious
> >> problems if used on the street and one were to encounter fough road
> >> conditions. I was told that this set up while being very efficent at
> >> preventing body roll , but when one encounters rough or uneven road
> >> surfaces
> >> the sway bar with heim ball ends it would be very unforgiving in
> >> transfering
> >> force from on side of the car to the other  and could result in putting the
> >> car and driver in a very difficult position if either encountered poor road
> >> conditions. He suggested I retain the conventional rubber bushings for the
> >> sway bar.
> >> Boyd
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 3:29 PM, <JDeRyke at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In a message dated 5/8/10 10:41:49 AM, tborcich at msn.com writes:
> >>>
> >>>> I recall a number of months back someone commented that I should add
> >>>> additional support to the sway bar mounts on the a-arms because theirs
> >>> pulled
> >>>> right off the arm from loading?
> >>>>
> >>> Yes, under some circumstances. If you run a big swaybar bar AND
> >>> polyurethane bar-end bushings AND drive fast on bumpy roads, the poly
> >>> bushing on the
> >>> end is so non-compliant it flexes the little bar mount rather than
> >>> deforming
> >>> the poly end. Fatigue-cracking follows after a while. So you can weld up
> >>> mount reinforcements, or (better) you can add sphere-ball ends to the
> >> bars
> >>> and
> >>> use poly only for the centeral bar-pivots. This results in much freer
> >>> antiswaybar action and a lighter more stock suspension. With the
> >>> sphere-balls
> >>> installed on both ends of both bars, you can actually feel the difference
> >>> with
> >>> the same bar! Most of the vendors sell some sort of sphere-ball bar ends
> >>> and
> >>> they are highly recommended. FWIW- J DeRyke
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