[DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alignment
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Sun May 2 18:06:25 EDT 2010
I stand corrected if it is .1", which sounds more plausible now I think about it. However, I think we are all agreed that the amount of caster you can gain via milling the ball joint is minimal. Other more productive approaches are a) use offset bushings b) modify your a-arms. The latter is required to achieve the quoted 0.75" and I used a combination of both a + b.
If you do the a-arm modification you can send the camber lock kit back as it's pretty easy to incorporate a camber lock while you've got the MIG welder at hand. The process for the front a-arms is really quite simple for someone with access to a press and welding skills. The ball joint is actually the structural part of the front upper a-arm and the cross plate that holds the two halves together only tack welded. When I modified my a-arms I taught Larry Stock and his tech how to do it, so maybe they can do it cheaper than Pat. Johnny Woods in the UK does it and even with the shipping and current exchange I think he's way cheaper than Pat's price. I might even get into the market myself and probably at less than half Pat's price..... If anyone has a used set of front upper a-arms they want to sell let me know and I can have set done and ready on an exchange basis.
I see no reason to have front-back (caster) adjustement on the rears unless you are into some serious track time or a racing set up. An a-arm is available that has a heim in place of the ball joint and permits easy camber adjustment, this is what I ahev on both Panteras. I have seen one set of Pat's rears and sorry to say I thought they looked like a schoolboy metalwork project, you decide for yourself...
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=20033
Julian
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 16:28:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] machine ball joint to modify alignment
From: boyd411 at gmail.com
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
CC: julian_kift at hotmail.com; cengles at cox.net; detomaso at realbig.com
I purchased the Dennis Quella camber lock kit . It has not arrived and I have not had my a-arms powder coated yet so I haven't started trying to re-assemble everything so I have no idea how everything is going to work out with new bushings, new ball joints, new tie rod ends and new shocks and all new risers , hubs, wheels bearings ( of the Ken Green suspension modification) so my expectations are for a great end result even though I have no factual reason to expect the end result to be an improvement over a new stock set up ( other then the fact that I have spent allot of money and I am an optimist!. I seem to remember that the ball joint modification called for milling 1 thousandth from the ball joint. Since all the parts are brand new ( the A-arms aren't new but the bushings are new and every part that can be changed has been) So I believe it would be foolish to make any changes to the set up until it has been assembled and I find out what I've got. I spoke to Pat Mikal and he offers a modification that requires you to turn in your stock upper A-arms and he does a modification that is supposed to make your a-arms adjustable and provides the ability to increase or decrease your caster camber by over 3 degrees. He also offers a modification to the rear upper a-arms that allows for adjusting the ball joint in and out ( in addition to the front and back that is normally obtained with the shims. His modification requires you to supply your stock upper A-arms as a core and has a cost of $1200.00 for the front upper a-arms and $1200.00 for the rear upper a-arms. So His is not an inexpensive modification. He claims that Dennis Quellas camber lock is "No Good" and that he has replaced many of Dennis Quellas camber lock kits. I bought Dennis's kit and have heard only good things about it (except from Pat Mikal) Mike Drew told me he was very happy with Dennis Quellas camber lock kit and does it on every car he has the opportunity to work on. I have never spoken to anyone that has had Pat's A-arm Mod. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has had it done.
Boyd
On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 3:55 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 5/2/10 8:40:28 AM, julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:
I have heard various amounts that can be safely milled off of the balljoint before breaking through to the ball, most of those quoted values are around one hundredth of an inch. It might be wise to practice and determining the safe limit on your old joint prior to milling the new one.
By happy coincidence, the amount that can safely be milled corresponds roughly to the thickness of the shim which comes as part of the camber lock kit. Actually, I take that back. The camber lock shim is about 2x the amount that can be safely removed from each end of the ball joint. When installing the kit in a '71 Pantera, which has different A-arms from the later cars, the only way you have room is to mill BOTH sides of the ball joint about .100". On a later car, you mill the back side .100", remove .100" in shims from the front side, and substitute in the camber lock kit. :>)
Mike
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