[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 68, Issue 23

[Merrick J. Mouton]

I am the individual with the crashed Pantera.  I live in Lafayette, 
Louisiana and have had the car for around 8 years.  I just finished a 3 year 
restoration on the car, new paint, interior, motor etc.  The car was 
accepted by Jeff Cobb to be in the live oak concours event in Baton Rouge. 
On the Friday before the show there will be a car cruise escorted by the 
police though the city and countryside and Tom Tjaarda was scheduled to 
drive/ride with me in the car.  I had meet Tom at the previous year's event 
and had a wonderful time with him and enjoyed our conversations.  He is a 
true gentleman

            On Sunday afternoon on March 14 I took the car out for a quick 
ride with a friend from out of town.  We had gone about 5 miles and just 
turned onto a two lane country road. After traveling down the road about ¼ 
mile a car was coming towards us and looked to be slowing down in order to 
make a left turn (across my lane) onto a side road.  I thought they were 
going to just let me pass giving them the opportunity to check out the car 
as we went by.  They were just about stopped when all of a sudden the car 
took off and turned left right into my path.  I hit the brakes and turned 
slightly to the right towards the shoulder/ditch.  The Pantera's front left 
side took the major blow from the oncoming car and then we went into the 
ditch.

            I have a four-point seat belt harness on the car and I 
considered this to be a lifesaver.  The passenger in the Pantera received 
just minor scratches and bruises.  As the driver I sustained major damage to 
my right leg/foot/ankle.  This is apparently due to the fact that I had my 
foot on the brake and the impact forced the front firewall considerable into 
the driver pedal compartment.  I have not been able to see the car since the 
accident to get more info on the specific damage and where areas "crumpled" 
into the driver compartment.

The driver of the other car had her license for about 3 weeks, but she is 
OK.

Merrick Mouton
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <detomaso-request at realbig.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:00 AM
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 68, Issue 23


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> than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Chapter flags (B Hower)
>   2. Re: Show Car Crashed... (Rob Dumoulin)
>   3. Porterfield vs stock pads? (pantdino at aol.com)
>   4. Re: myth of Pantera braking force limiter? (JDeRyke at aol.com)
>   5. Porterfield vs stock pads? (Garth Rodericks)
>   6. Re: Show Car Crashed... (Tomas Gunnarsson)
>   7. Re: Show Car Crashed... (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>   8. Re: Show Car Crashed... (pantdino at aol.com)
>   9. Aldan shocks help! (panteratime at aol.com)
>  10. Re: Porterfield vs stock pads? (wkooiman at earthlink.net)
>  11. Re: Aldan shocks help! (pantdino at aol.com)
>  12. Re: Porterfield vs stock pads? (Will Demelo)
>  13. Great Ford ad from Saturday Night Live... (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  14. Re: Chapter flags (Mark McWhinney)
>  15. Re: Aldan shocks help! (Tony DiGiovanna)
>  16. Re: Porterfield vs stock pads? (Mike Thomas)
>  17. Re: Aldan shocks help! (Ken Green)
>  18. Re: Aldan shocks help! (Mike Thomas)
>  19. Re: Aldan shocks help! (Mike Thomas)
>  20. Re: Aldan shocks help! (Ken Green)
>  21. Re: Chapter flags (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  22. Re: Porterfield vs stock pads? (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  23. Re: Show Car Crashed... (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  24. Re: Show Car Crashed... (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  25. Re: Aldan shocks help! (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  26. Re: Show Car Crashed... (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>  27. Re: Show Car Crashed... (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  28. Re: Show Car Crashed... (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>  29. Re: Show Car Crashed... (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>  30. Re: Aldan shocks help! (pantdino at aol.com)
>  31. Re: Aldan shocks help! (pantdino at aol.com)
>  32. Re: Aldan shocks help! (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  33. Re: Aldan shocks help! (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  34. Re: Aldan shocks help! (pantdino at aol.com)
>  35. Re: Aldan shocks help! (Ken Green)
>  36. Re: Aldan shocks help! (pantdino at aol.com)
>  37. Re: Aldan shocks help! (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>  38. Re: Aldan shocks help! (pantdino at aol.com)
>  39. Re: Show Car Crashed... (JDeRyke at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chapter flags
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <594129.41370.qm at web110104.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Mike
> Now you guys are going to mess around and get a POCA flag. That just means 
> I will have to mount a flag pole in my yard so I can fly it. WOW ! Bring 
> it on.
> Bud 3400
>
> --- On Mon, 3/22/10, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chapter flags
> To: "'Bill Lewis'" <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
> Cc: doug351c at gmail.com
> Date: Monday, March 22, 2010, 4:36 AM
>
>
> We don't have a flag, but we do have a banner.? A flag sounds like a great
> idea.
> Mike Thomas
> Panteras Northwest
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of Bill Lewis
> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:10 PM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Chapter flags
>
>
> Harley HOG chapters have their own flags that they can display as needed.
> Do the Pantera chapters have their own flags?? Does POCA?? Thanks, Bill
>
>
>
> ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ?
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 10:15:32 -0400
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> Cc: List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
> <a2c099581003220715q73b9cb30vd4d91c79fdd2e343 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> You might as well have posted pictures of mutilated puppies.  It hurts 
> just
> the same.
>
> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:24 PM, <detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> DeTomaso Drivers,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure you are all aware of the new car show in Baton Rouge, LA that 
>> one
>> of our
>>
>> DeTomaso members has created to benefit the fight against cancer.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.liveoakconcours.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> This 2nd annual event on 4/17 will have Tom Tjaarda among the 
>> dignitaries.
>>
>> This really is a "Don't Miss It" kind of event.
>>
>>
>>
>> A Pantera was prepared for display, and during a test drive the car was
>> hit.
>>
>>
>>
>> The owner has been severely hurt but apparently the seat belts limited 
>> the
>> injuries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suggested the car still be displayed.  I am not aware of such a display
>> at any recent
>> car show,
>>
>> and it would really make an impression.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some before and after photos car be seen on the Damaged DeTomasos page:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.provamo.com/Members/DamagedDeTomasos/DamagedDeTomasos.asp
>>
>>
>>
>> My condolences and sympathies go out to the owner.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:03:58 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC97F06A36FFB0-190C-405 at webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> Since I have rebuilt my rear calipers it seems like a logical time to 
> consider changing pads too.  Yes, I know I should change the fronts too if 
> I do that.
>
> I am familiar with the Porterfield R4S pads, which I had on my M3 for a 
> while.  I took them off because they have poor cold (first stop in the 
> morning or after 15 min of non-use) performance compared to OEM BMW pads. 
> However, I don't know how they compare to the stock Girling pads.
>
> How do they compare to the stock Girling pads re rotor wear and braking 
> force upon application when they are cold?
> I am aware of the fact that they have to be properly bedded in or they 
> will squeal.
>
> Who has the best price on Porterfields?  The company itself or a retailer?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:36:04 EDT
> From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] myth of Pantera braking force limiter?
> To: pantdino at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <706a9.5485bff9.38d8f674 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> In a message dated 3/21/10 5:54:55 PM, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>> It seems to me that the "extra" calipers were just adding drag and no
>> braking at all, while my rebuild of the original calipers will increase 
>> my
>> rear braking.? So I should have better balance than I did and that seemed 
>> to
>> be adequate for the use I put the car to.
>>
> As a pure guess, Jim- two extra rear calipers should work better in
> balancing the braking and its a simple bolt-on addition requiring no 
> adapters etc.
> The stock front calipers are really quite good while the single tiny rear
> calipers are pathetically small, needing the front to be severely limited 
> to
> come anywhere near being 'balanced'. You won't need the proportioning 
> valve
> up there, though, and in any case it will be way-wrong for double rear
> calipers and is unadjustable. Good job- J DeRyke
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>, pantdino at aol.com
> Message-ID: <439662.34301.qm at web56905.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Porterfield R4S pads, stone cold, perform as well if not better than stock 
> Girling pads warm!  Measurement taken
> by the seat of the pants method. I can say I had no confidence in my stock 
> pads - almost slammed into the rear of
> a minivan at 5:30am one morning on my way to work because the stock pads 
> just wouldn't stop the car; but I must
> have stopped within an inch of his bumper because I don't know how I 
> didn't make contact. The Porterfields are
> great, even cold, compared to the stock pads.
>
> Just do it! You won't be sorry.
> Garth
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:47:43 +0100
> From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: "List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <OPEFLFBOEEFAPFNPFDJBAEMKCGAA.guson at home.se>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> While it's always sad to see a car crashed I'm surprised that the drivers
> side impact has not moved the steering wheel more. Do you have pics of the
> drivers footwell and how the pedals have behaved?
>
> Tomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of
> detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> Sent: den 22 mars 2010 02:24
> To: List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
>
>
> DeTomaso Drivers,
>
>
>
> I am sure you are all aware of the new car show in Baton Rouge, LA that 
> one
> of our
>
> DeTomaso members has created to benefit the fight against cancer.
>
>
>
> http://www.liveoakconcours.org/
>
>
>
> This 2nd annual event on 4/17 will have Tom Tjaarda among the dignitaries.
>
> This really is a "Don't Miss It" kind of event.
>
>
>
> A Pantera was prepared for display, and during a test drive the car was 
> hit.
>
>
>
> The owner has been severely hurt but apparently the seat belts limited the
> injuries.
>
>
>
> I suggested the car still be displayed.  I am not aware of such a display 
> at
> any recent
> car show,
>
> and it would really make an impression.
>
>
>
> Some before and after photos car be seen on the Damaged DeTomasos page:
>
>
>
> http://www.provamo.com/Members/DamagedDeTomasos/DamagedDeTomasos.asp
>
>
>
> My condolences and sympathies go out to the owner.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:51:08 -0400
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> Cc: List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
> <29a6b52c1003221251u5dca69b7jacfe23cb25f79cf8 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I was told that his leg was crushed in the accident, from the looks of the
> damage he seems to be lucky that most of the force was forward of the
> cockpit area, esp since we all know the doors are to keep water spray off
> the drivers and not much else.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>
>
> So, experts, is this car toast or can it be fixed or is it better to find
> another and move the undamaged good pieces.
>
> I'm making plans to attend that show, we'll see what happens.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
>
>> While it's always sad to see a car crashed I'm surprised that the drivers
>> side impact has not moved the steering wheel more. Do you have pics of 
>> the
>> drivers footwell and how the pedals have behaved?
>>
>> Tomas
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of
>> detomasoregistry at gmail.com
>> Sent: den 22 mars 2010 02:24
>> To: List
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
>>
>>
>> DeTomaso Drivers,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am sure you are all aware of the new car show in Baton Rouge, LA that 
>> one
>> of our
>>
>> DeTomaso members has created to benefit the fight against cancer.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.liveoakconcours.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> This 2nd annual event on 4/17 will have Tom Tjaarda among the 
>> dignitaries.
>>
>> This really is a "Don't Miss It" kind of event.
>>
>>
>>
>> A Pantera was prepared for display, and during a test drive the car was
>> hit.
>>
>>
>>
>> The owner has been severely hurt but apparently the seat belts limited 
>> the
>> injuries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suggested the car still be displayed.  I am not aware of such a display
>> at
>> any recent
>> car show,
>>
>> and it would really make an impression.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some before and after photos car be seen on the Damaged DeTomasos page:
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.provamo.com/Members/DamagedDeTomasos/DamagedDeTomasos.asp
>>
>>
>>
>> My condolences and sympathies go out to the owner.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:23:47 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com, guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC981D17E599A8-190C-5BE9 at webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> The forward part of the car serves as a crumple zone.  Unfortunately, 
> there isn't much there between the bumper and the foot well.
>
> Most cars are designed so the steering wheel does not displace rearward by 
> keeping the steering column short and rearward.
>
> My understanding is that the spare tire was moved to the rear because in 
> the DOT crash tests having it in the front led to force being transmitted 
> to the base of the windshield in lesser crashes.
>
> Jim Oddie
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> Cc: List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:51 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
>
>
> I was told that his leg was crushed in the accident, from the looks of the
> amage he seems to be lucky that most of the force was forward of the
> ockpit area, esp since we all know the doors are to keep water spray off
> he drivers and not much else.
> Michael Shortt
>
> So, experts, is this car toast or can it be fixed or is it better to find
> nother and move the undamaged good pieces.
> I'm making plans to attend that show, we'll see what happens.
>
>
> n Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
>> While it's always sad to see a car crashed I'm surprised that the drivers
> side impact has not moved the steering wheel more. Do you have pics of the
> drivers footwell and how the pedals have behaved?
>
> Tomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of
> detomasoregistry at gmail.com
> Sent: den 22 mars 2010 02:24
> To: List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
>
>
> DeTomaso Drivers,
>
>
>
> I am sure you are all aware of the new car show in Baton Rouge, LA that 
> one
> of our
>
> DeTomaso members has created to benefit the fight against cancer.
>
>
>
> http://www.liveoakconcours.org/
>
>
>
> This 2nd annual event on 4/17 will have Tom Tjaarda among the dignitaries.
>
> This really is a "Don't Miss It" kind of event.
>
>
>
> A Pantera was prepared for display, and during a test drive the car was
> hit.
>
>
>
> The owner has been severely hurt but apparently the seat belts limited the
> injuries.
>
>
>
> I suggested the car still be displayed.  I am not aware of such a display
> at
> any recent
> car show,
>
> and it would really make an impression.
>
>
>
> Some before and after photos car be seen on the Damaged DeTomasos page:
>
>
>
> http://www.provamo.com/Members/DamagedDeTomasos/DamagedDeTomasos.asp
>
>
>
> My condolences and sympathies go out to the owner.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> avannah, Georgia
> ww.michaelshortt.com
> ichael at michaelshortt.com
> 12-232-9390
>
> his email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> ct, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> rivileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> hat any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> ommunication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> ave received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> ______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> DeTomaso mailing list
> eTomaso at list.realbig.com
> ttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:27:42 -0400
> From: panteratime at aol.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC981DA425972F-1E5C-1C2F at webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Folks,
> The guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants me to measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound 
> adjustable shock with poly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which 
> one I should get?  I understand ride height is the difference.  My car is 
> stock 1972 with original front shocks, not a race car!.
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:14:29 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
> To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
> <22386227.1269296069939.JavaMail.root at elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I agree.  I have R4S.  They work great, cold or hot.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Mar 22, 2010 1:43 PM
>>To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>, pantdino at aol.com
>>Subject: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
>>
>>Porterfield R4S pads, stone cold, perform as well if not better than stock 
>>Girling pads warm!  Measurement taken
>>by the seat of the pants method. I can say I had no confidence in my stock 
>>pads - almost slammed into the rear of
>>a minivan at 5:30am one morning on my way to work because the stock pads 
>>just wouldn't stop the car; but I must
>>have stopped within an inch of his bumper because I don't know how I 
>>didn't make contact. The Porterfields are
>>great, even cold, compared to the stock pads.
>>
>>Just do it! You won't be sorry.
>>Garth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
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>>
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>>http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:02:17 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC982ADACDB801-190C-7302 at webmail-m003.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Do you plan to lower the car at all?
>
> Are you going to continue to use the stock springs?
>
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long 
> shocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to 
> compress  them down, thus increasing your spring rate
>
> If you plan to use the stock springs then you will want shocks with the 
> same working length range as the stock ones.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: panteratime at aol.com
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:27 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
>
> olks,
> he guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants me
> o measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound adjustable shock 
> with
> oly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which one I should get?  I
> nderstand ride height is the difference.  My car is stock 1972 with 
> original
> ront shocks, not a race car!.
> hanks in advance for your advice.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:30:39 -0400
> From: "Will Demelo" <wdemelo at cogeco.ca>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
> To: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>, "DeTomaso Mail List"
> <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <7B8D9394F0304AC5A832E1BF948635FA at D58FR581>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Best ~$200 I ever spent on my previous car.
> Will
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:14 PM
> To: "DeTomaso Mail List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
>
>> I agree.  I have R4S.  They work great, cold or hot.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
>>>Sent: Mar 22, 2010 1:43 PM
>>>To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at realbig.com>, pantdino at aol.com
>>>Subject: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
>>>
>>>Porterfield R4S pads, stone cold, perform as well if not better than 
>>>stock
>>>Girling pads warm!  Measurement taken
>>>by the seat of the pants method. I can say I had no confidence in my 
>>>stock
>>>pads - almost slammed into the rear of
>>>a minivan at 5:30am one morning on my way to work because the stock pads
>>>just wouldn't stop the car; but I must
>>>have stopped within an inch of his bumper because I don't know how I
>>>didn't make contact. The Porterfields are
>>>great, even cold, compared to the stock pads.
>>>
>>>Just do it! You won't be sorry.
>>>Garth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>>Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>
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>>>DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:38:27 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Great Ford ad from Saturday Night Live...
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <11bac.2992c861.38d95973 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Worth 59 seconds of your life! :>)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8MJ_iLtfkE
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:50:51 -0500
> From: "Mark McWhinney" <msm at portata.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chapter flags
> To: "Bill Lewis" <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
> <5934AC5A272CA84DA0AAF8825D636433B5B927 at EXVS03.wng.chicago.hostway>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Every chapter has a logo.  You can see them on the POCA website in the
> Club=>Chapters section.  Here is the Panteras Northwest webpage with
> logo.  http://www.poca.com/index.php/cl/ch/west/pnw
>
> Several chapters have large, vinyl banners that they hang at events.
>
> I don't know of any chapters that have cloth flags, but they would be
> great to have.  I think that the CHPIE logo on a black flag would be
> cool.
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/cl/ch/west/chpie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On Behalf Of Bill Lewis
> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 3:10 PM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Chapter flags
>
>
> Harley HOG chapters have their own flags that they can display as
> needed.  Do the Pantera chapters have their own flags?  Does POCA?
> Thanks, Bill
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:
> ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_3
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:13:12 -0400
> From: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: pantdino at aol.com, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <006301caca1d$a0dc87b0$e2959710$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> You can't really compress the spring to achieve lowering...compressing the
> spring in an adjustable shock raises the car until you extend the shock to
> its mechanical limit, then it really doesn't increase your spring
> RATE...your rate immediately goes to infinity until you reach the preload
> created, then the rate is same as it was.  Terrible result.
>
> My suggestion:  get the shorter spring, then if you need, add a proper
> spacer.  I'd be surprised if any Pantera used up the whole shock/spring
> throw on any shock/spring combo.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of pantdino at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:02 PM
> To: panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> Do you plan to lower the car at all?
>
> Are you going to continue to use the stock springs?
>
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long
> shocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to
> compress  them down, thus increasing your spring rate
>
> If you plan to use the stock springs then you will want shocks with the 
> same
> working length range as the stock ones.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: panteratime at aol.com
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:27 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
>
> olks,
> he guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants
> me
> o measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound adjustable shock
> with
> oly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which one I should get?  I
> nderstand ride height is the difference.  My car is stock 1972 with 
> original
>
> ront shocks, not a race car!.
> hanks in advance for your advice.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> ttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:26:07 -0700
> From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
> To: <pantdino at aol.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <S559446Ab0CWBQu/20100323011659Z+330 at realbig.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Night and day to the old (stock) Pantera pads.  But you HAVE to change the
> fronts to get the full effect as that end of the car does the majority of
> the braking.  Only putting them on the back will do is make your parking
> brake happy (providing you have one that works) ;-).
> Once you've changed your pads at all four corners, have a pressure bleed
> done at Les Schwab (or whatever your local tire store is).  After proper
> break-in, you'll have a whole new car.
> Mike Thomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of pantdino at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:04 AM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
>
>
>
> Since I have rebuilt my rear calipers it seems like a logical time to
> consider changing pads too.  Yes, I know I should change the fronts too if 
> I
> do that.
>
> I am familiar with the Porterfield R4S pads, which I had on my M3 for a
> while.  I took them off because they have poor cold (first stop in the
> morning or after 15 min of non-use) performance compared to OEM BMW pads.
> However, I don't know how they compare to the stock Girling pads.
>
> How do they compare to the stock Girling pads re rotor wear and braking
> force upon application when they are cold?
> I am aware of the fact that they have to be properly bedded in or they 
> will
> squeal.
>
> Who has the best price on Porterfields?  The company itself or a retailer?
>
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: detomaso at realbig.com, panteratime at aol.com
> Message-ID: <435954.20187.qm at web30801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Ted Mitchell has a massive amount of suspension data here under "technical 
> info":
> ?
> http://www.tmitch.com/
> ?
> You can find shock length versus suspension travel info if you look for a 
> while.? People seems to like the neutral position with the lower control 
> arm horiziontal.? Ted shows a front shock length of 13.68" and rear of 
> 14.36" at what I assume is where the lower control arm is horizontal.
> ?
> Ken
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/22/10, panteratime at aol.com <panteratime at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: panteratime at aol.com <panteratime at aol.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Monday, March 22, 2010, 2:27 PM
>
>
>
> Folks,
> The guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants me to measure original shock on car.? This is for a rebound 
> adjustable shock with poly bushings $400 a set.? Any suggestions on which 
> one I should get?? I understand ride height is the difference.? My car is 
> stock 1972 with original front shocks, not a race car!.
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:29:03 -0700
> From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: <panteratime at aol.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <S559172Ab0CWBTp/20100323011955Z+331 at realbig.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have the 755's which you'll have to ask the rep how they compare.  One 
> of
> my goals with the Aldans was to lower the car to the proper ride height.
> These worked fine.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of panteratime at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:28 PM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> Folks,
> The guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP
> shock--Wants me to measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound
> adjustable shock with poly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which
> one I should get?  I understand ride height is the difference.  My car is
> stock 1972 with original front shocks, not a race car!.
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:30:54 -0700
> From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: <pantdino at aol.com>, <panteratime at aol.com>, <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <S559331Ab0CWBVo/20100323012145Z+332 at realbig.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Can't use the stock springs with Aldan shocks, they take a smaller 
> diameter
> spring (I am almost positive).  Don't have my old springs to compare them
> to.
>
> Mike Thomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of pantdino at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:02 PM
> To: panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> Do you plan to lower the car at all?
>
> Are you going to continue to use the stock springs?
>
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long
> shocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to
> compress  them down, thus increasing your spring rate
>
> If you plan to use the stock springs then you will want shocks with the 
> same
> working length range as the stock ones.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: panteratime at aol.com
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:27 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
>
> olks,
> he guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants
> me o measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound adjustable 
> shock
> with oly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which one I should get? 
> I
> nderstand ride height is the difference.  My car is stock 1972 with 
> original
> ront shocks, not a race car!.
> hanks in advance for your advice.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> DeTomaso mailing list eTomaso at list.realbig.com
> ttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
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> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:58:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com, Mike Thomas
> <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Message-ID: <107180.20285.qm at web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Mike,
> ?
> ???? The 755s are compression, rebound, and height adjsutable.? The 800 
> series are compression adjustable only and the 600 series are rebound 
> adjustable only.? The 655 is just slightly shorter than the 755, I assume 
> to make room for the rebound adjustment.? The 658 uses a 12 inch spring 
> and overlaps the range of the 755 (a little more on the long end).?
> ?
> ??? What would?be great to know is what ride height?range results from 
> different spring?weights in the front and rear, especially with heavier 
> springs which may limit the ability to lower the car.
> ?
> Ken?
>
> --- On Mon, 3/22/10, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Monday, March 22, 2010, 6:29 PM
>
>
> I have the 755's which you'll have to ask the rep how they compare.? One 
> of
> my goals with the Aldans was to lower the car to the proper ride height.
> These worked fine.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of panteratime at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:28 PM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> Folks,
> The guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP
> shock--Wants me to measure original shock on car.? This is for a rebound
> adjustable shock with poly bushings $400 a set.? Any suggestions on which
> one I should get?? I understand ride height is the difference.? My car is
> stock 1972 with original front shocks, not a race car!.
> Thanks in advance for your advice.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
>
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> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:16:56 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chapter flags
> To: detomasoregistry at gmail.com, lotus0005 at hotmail.com,
> detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <2300d.6d023c7e.38d97e98 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/21/10 14 26 7, detomasoregistry at gmail.com writes:
>
>
>> PCNC has a large banner.? I think it has only been used at the annual
>> convention,
>> not at any of our 'local' events.
>>
>
> We use it in Monterey too....
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:38:59 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Porterfield vs stock pads?
> To: pantdino at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <24316.1247145b.38d983c3 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 9 04 45, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> How do they compare to the stock Girling pads re rotor wear and braking
>> force upon application when they are cold?
>>
>>>>They work a little better than the stock pads when cold and a LOT better
> once warmed up.   You can't do any worse than the stock pads.   They suck!
>
>> >I am aware of the fact that they have to be properly bedded in or they
>> will squeal.
>>
>> >>>More than that, they won't grip as well unless they're bedded in.
>
>> >Who has the best price on Porterfields?? The company itself or a
>> retailer?
>>
>>>>Buy direct from the manufacturer.   I don't know of many places that
> sell Porterfield pads, but they're unlikely to keep them on the shelf in 
> any
> case.   Best to just phone Porterfield and deal direct, IMHO.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:49:20 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: michaelsavga at gmail.com, guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <24c60.6afdb61f.38d98630 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 12 55 52, michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:
>
>
>> I was told that his leg was crushed in the accident, from the looks of
>> the
>> damage he seems to be lucky that most of the force was forward of the
>> cockpit area, esp since we all know the doors are to keep water spray off
>> the drivers and not much else.
>>
>
> What on earth do you base that on?
>
> Panteras actually performed very well in crash tests, once the chassis was
> beefed up (they initially failed).   There have been numerous real-world
> crashes where the front or the rear of the car was totally demolished, but 
> the
> cabin remained intact.   While they may not perform as well as a modern 
> car
> in side impacts, in frontal or rear collisions they do much better than
> you'd have any right to expect.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:51:06 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: pantdino at aol.com, michael at michaelshortt.com, guson at home.se
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <24de2.4d4c58c5.38d9869a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 14 24 49, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> My understanding is that the spare tire was moved to the rear because in
>> the DOT crash tests having it in the front led to force being transmitted 
>> to
>> the base of the windshield in lesser crashes.
>>
>
> Actually, the front trunk popped open, the spare lifted up and went 
> through
> the windshield and killed the driver!
>
> Good reason to then put it in the back!!!!
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:55:16 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: pantdino at aol.com, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <250ea.28ebc207.38d98794 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 16 02 52, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long
>> shocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to
>> compress? them down, thus increasing your spring rate
>>
>
> Uh...no.
>
> Ride height is set with coilover shocks by raising and lowering the spring
> perch on a threaded collar.   You're not 'compressing' anything.   The
> spring rate is the same whether you have it jacked to the moon, or lowered 
> into
> the weeds.   The length of the spring is unchanged in either case, as is 
> the
> rate.
>
> I think you're thinking about lowering the car by *cutting* the springs,
> which does increase the spring rate (and generally screws things up).
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:28:02 -0400
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: guson at home.se, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID:
> <29a6b52c1003222028u68fabbedpe0e4ce1fe8c0cdcc at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I would hate to be hit in a T-bone situation in my car ( red light runner
> for example) , the doors offer no side impact protection to speak of, esp 
> as
> low as the car is low and dunper heights have risen ( my car is esp low ).
> as far as the front and rear crumple zones, it appears to be fine for the
> time period of design, but seriuosly, would you want an Expedition, 
> Explorer
> or Excursion to T-Bone you in your car?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:49 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> In a message dated 3/22/10 12 55 52, michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>> I was told that his leg was crushed in the accident, from the looks of 
>> the
>> damage he seems to be lucky that most of the force was forward of the
>> cockpit area, esp since we all know the doors are to keep water spray off
>> the drivers and not much else.
>>
>>
>> What on earth do you base that on?
>>
>> Panteras actually performed very well in crash tests, once the chassis 
>> was
>> beefed up (they initially failed).  There have been numerous real-world
>> crashes where the front or the rear of the car was totally demolished, 
>> but
>> the cabin remained intact.  While they may not perform as well as a 
>> modern
>> car in side impacts, in frontal or rear collisions they do much better 
>> than
>> you'd have any right to expect.
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:31:08 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: michaelsavga at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <26af0.36d5e1b8.38d98ffc at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 20 28 22, michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:
>
>
>> I would hate to be hit in a T-bone situation in my car ( red light runner
>> for example) , the doors offer no side impact protection to speak of, esp
>> as low as the car is low and dunper heights have risen ( my car is esp 
>> low
>> ).
>>  as far as the front and rear crumple zones, it appears to be fine for 
>> the
>> time period of design, but seriuosly, would you want an Expedition,
>> Explorer or Excursion to T-Bone you in your car?
>>
>>
>
> As I said, side impacts are not going to be pretty. :<(
>
> Actually, impacts with big trucks and SUVs from the front or rear are
> problematic because they are jacked up so high that they will literally 
> run over
> the top of us.   Although, that might actually be a good thing, as it 
> would
> dissapate energy.
>
> My plan is to just avoid getting hit!   Fingers crossed there!
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:32:23 -0400
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: guson at home.se, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID:
> <29a6b52c1003222032r27812b12k3a91dff182f6fcba at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> "dunpers" are bumpers in my alternative late night, stressed and exhausted
> state.
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:28 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would hate to be hit in a T-bone situation in my car ( red light runner
>> for example) , the doors offer no side impact protection to speak of, esp 
>> as
>> low as the car is low and dunper heights have risen ( my car is esp 
>> low ).
>> as far as the front and rear crumple zones, it appears to be fine for the
>> time period of design, but seriuosly, would you want an Expedition, 
>> Explorer
>> or Excursion to T-Bone you in your car?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:49 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 3/22/10 12 55 52, michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> I was told that his leg was crushed in the accident, from the looks of 
>>> the
>>> damage he seems to be lucky that most of the force was forward of the
>>> cockpit area, esp since we all know the doors are to keep water spray 
>>> off
>>> the drivers and not much else.
>>>
>>>
>>> What on earth do you base that on?
>>>
>>> Panteras actually performed very well in crash tests, once the chassis 
>>> was
>>> beefed up (they initially failed).  There have been numerous real-world
>>> crashes where the front or the rear of the car was totally demolished, 
>>> but
>>> the cabin remained intact.  While they may not perform as well as a 
>>> modern
>>> car in side impacts, in frontal or rear collisions they do much better 
>>> than
>>> you'd have any right to expect.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
>> notified
>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that 
>> you
>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:36:22 -0400
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: guson at home.se, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID:
> <29a6b52c1003222036g1e03b742q76e093f1c7d69d25 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I had a client who was hit head on in his C6 vette, the F-250 did exactly
> that, used the car like a ramp and rolled over his car.
>
> He was beat up and cut a bit on his scalp, but not too hurt aside from the
> bloody mess.
>
> The car was replaced with a Hummer H2 SUT.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:32 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "dunpers" are bumpers in my alternative late night, stressed and 
>> exhausted
>> state.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:28 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
>> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would hate to be hit in a T-bone situation in my car ( red light 
>>> runner
>>> for example) , the doors offer no side impact protection to speak of, 
>>> esp as
>>> low as the car is low and dunper heights have risen ( my car is esp 
>>> low ).
>>> as far as the front and rear crumple zones, it appears to be fine for 
>>> the
>>> time period of design, but seriuosly, would you want an Expedition, 
>>> Explorer
>>> or Excursion to T-Bone you in your car?
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:49 PM, <MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 3/22/10 12 55 52, michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was told that his leg was crushed in the accident, from the looks of
>>>> the
>>>> damage he seems to be lucky that most of the force was forward of the
>>>> cockpit area, esp since we all know the doors are to keep water spray 
>>>> off
>>>> the drivers and not much else.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What on earth do you base that on?
>>>>
>>>> Panteras actually performed very well in crash tests, once the chassis
>>>> was beefed up (they initially failed).  There have been numerous 
>>>> real-world
>>>> crashes where the front or the rear of the car was totally demolished, 
>>>> but
>>>> the cabin remained intact.  While they may not perform as well as a 
>>>> modern
>>>> car in side impacts, in frontal or rear collisions they do much better 
>>>> than
>>>> you'd have any right to expect.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>> www.michaelshortt.com
>>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> 912-232-9390
>>>
>>>
>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>> notified
>>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that 
>>> you
>>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
>> notified
>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that 
>> you
>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:01:07 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: tonydigi at optonline.net, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC985499689762-3CEC-B477 at Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I'm not sure if its just terminology that we differ on, but here's my 
> thinking:
>
> The spring holds the car up.
> The bottom of the spring rests on the suspension arm, which is directly 
> attached to the wheel. So it is fixed in height.
> The longer (taller) the spring is the higher the car will sit above the 
> ground.
> So screwing down the adjuster to make the spring shorter (compress it) 
> will lower the car closer to the ground.
>
> Yes, when the shock is fully compressed to its internal bump stop (or the 
> spring coils touch each other) then resistance goes to infinity.  Actually 
> I think most shocks are not designed to support the weight of the car and 
> will be destroyed if you drive with them fully compressed.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
> To: pantdino at aol.com; panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 5:13 pm
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> You can't really compress the spring to achieve lowering...compressing the
> pring in an adjustable shock raises the car until you extend the shock to
> ts mechanical limit, then it really doesn't increase your spring
> ATE...your rate immediately goes to infinity until you reach the preload
> reated, then the rate is same as it was.  Terrible result.
> My suggestion:  get the shorter spring, then if you need, add a proper
> pacer.  I'd be surprised if any Pantera used up the whole shock/spring
> hrow on any shock/spring combo.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> ehalf Of pantdino at aol.com
> ent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:02 PM
> o: panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> ubject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
> o you plan to lower the car at all?
> Are you going to continue to use the stock springs?
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long
> hocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to
> ompress  them down, thus increasing your spring rate
> If you plan to use the stock springs then you will want shocks with the 
> same
> orking length range as the stock ones.
> Jim
>
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> rom: panteratime at aol.com
> o: detomaso at realbig.com
> ent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:27 pm
> ubject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
> olks,
> e guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants
> e
> measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound adjustable shock
> ith
> ly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which one I should get?  I
> derstand ride height is the difference.  My car is stock 1972 with 
> original
> ront shocks, not a race car!.
> anks in advance for your advice.
> _______________________________________________
> etomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> ttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:07:47 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC98558828345B-3CEC-B54F at Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Oops. My bad.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: pantdino at aol.com; panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 7:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 16 02 52, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long 
> shocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to 
> compress  them down, thus increasing your spring rate
>
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long 
> shocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to 
> compress  them down, thus increasing your spring rate
>
>
> Uh...no.
>
> Ride height is set with coilover shocks by raising and lowering the spring 
> perch on a threaded collar.  You're not 'compressing' anything.  The 
> spring rate is the same whether you have it jacked to the moon, or lowered 
> into the weeds.  The length of the spring is unchanged in either case, as 
> is the rate.
>
> I think you're thinking about lowering the car by *cutting* the springs, 
> which does increase the spring rate (and generally screws things up).
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:14:16 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: pantdino at aol.com, tonydigi at optonline.net, panteratime at aol.com,
> detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <2848b.19df6f30.38d99a18 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 21 02 27, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>> I'm not sure if its just terminology that we differ on, but here's my
>> thinking:
>>
>> The spring holds the car up.
>> The bottom of the spring rests on the suspension arm, which is directly
>> attached to the wheel. So it is fixed in height.
>> The longer (taller) the spring is the higher the car will sit above the
>> ground.
>> So screwing down the adjuster to make the spring shorter (compress it)
>> will lower the car closer to the ground.
>>
>
>>>>That's exactly wrong.
>
> The bottom of the spring doesn't rest on the suspension arm.   It rests on
> the bottom spring perch, which is fixed on a conventional (stock) shock, 
> and
> is adjustable height on any aftermarket shock.   The height of the spring
> is basically constant, regardless of where the spring perch is.   The free
> length when the car is in the air and the suspension is hanging free, 
> let's
> say, will be 10 inches.   If the distance between the upper and lower 
> perch is
> less than 10 inches, then the spring will be slightly compressed.
> Regardless of whether the spring is slightly compressed by the adjustable 
> perch or
> not, when the weight of the car is placed upon it, it will compress to a
> fixed length due to the weight of the car--for sake of argument, let's say 
> it
> compresses to 6 inches.
>
> If the spring perch is lowered all the way down, then the bottom of the
> spring will be closer to the ground, and the top of the spring (and the 
> car)
> will be a fixed height above that.   If the spring perch is raised all the 
> way
> up, then the bottom of the spring will be further away from the ground, 
> and
> the top of the spring (and the car) will be the SAME fixed height above
> that.
>
> Lowering the spring perch lowers the car and raising it raises the car.
> It's that simple.   It doesn't matter if, when the car is in the air, the
> distance between the upper and lower spring perches is greater than, equal 
> to
> or lesser than the free length of the spring.   The spring will compress 
> to
> its natural compressed length when the weight of the car is placed on it, 
> and
> that length will remain constant as long as the weight of the car remains
> constant.   The only variable is the location of the bottom spring perch
> (since, in adjustable shocks, the upper perch is normally fixed--although 
> the
> shock can be inverted and the same principle still applies).
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:16:02 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: pantdino at aol.com, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <28574.1d51099d.38d99a82 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 21 12 15, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> Oops. My bad.
>>
>>
>
> Hey, no worries my friend!   It's easy to over-think stuff and get all
> twisted around--I do it all the time! :>)
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:19:22 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: mbefthomas at comcast.net, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC9857263678A2-3CEC-B673 at Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Maybe you should let the guys at Aldan determine which shock you should 
> use.
> If you measure the height from the middle of the lower mounting bolt to 
> the middle of upper mounting bolt with the car at rest you will know what 
> you have now.
> Unless you change the spring rate the new coilover will rest at the same 
> spot when the spring is loaded (car is on the ground). If you change the 
> spring rate it will rest higher or lower depending on the new spring rate.
>
>
> When I was talking to the Aldan folks in 2005 I calculated, assuming a 
> 3300 lb wt and a 40/60 wt distribution, that each rear wheel supports 1000 
> lb and each front supports 650lb.  Based on that I was advised that for a 
> "sporting street use" the fronts should have 350-400 lb spring rates and 
> the rear 500-550. At that time they didn't know what the stock springs are 
> on a Pantera.
>
> At that time they said Hall ordered 15.5" max length shocks and used their 
> own larger-diameter springs while Precision Proformance ordered 755's with 
> 400 and 700 lb springs.
>
> According to the info I have from that time the 755 had a range of 11.5 to 
> 15.4inches while the 758HP was 11.7 to 15.5
>
> Most guys want to lower their car a bit when they switch to coilovers, so 
> you might want a longer shock than the average buyer.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> To: panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 6:29 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> I have the 755's which you'll have to ask the rep how they compare.  One 
> of
> y goals with the Aldans was to lower the car to the proper ride height.
> hese worked fine.
> Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> ehalf Of panteratime at aol.com
> ent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:28 PM
> o: detomaso at realbig.com
> ubject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
> olks,
> he guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP
> hock--Wants me to measure original shock on car.  This is for a rebound
> djustable shock with poly bushings $400 a set.  Any suggestions on which
> ne I should get?  I understand ride height is the difference.  My car is
> tock 1972 with original front shocks, not a race car!.
> hanks in advance for your advice.
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:21:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: tonydigi at optonline.net, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com,
> pantdino at aol.com
> Message-ID: <615586.4539.qm at web30801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Jim,
> ?
> ??? The?compressed length?of the spring when the spring is supporting the 
> car should sbe the same regardless of spring adjustment, as long as the 
> preload does not exceed the weight on the shock.? As you compress the 
> spring with pre-load, the relaxed length of the shock does not change, it 
> remains at the extended length.? But, as you increase preload, the 
> compression of the spring when you put weight on the car is reduced, so 
> the car sits higher for more preload.
> ?
> ?? For example.? If you have zero preload on a 400 Lbs spring and there is 
> 800 pounds static weight on the shock, the shock will compress 2 inches 
> when you drop the car.
> ?
> ??? If you preload?the spring 1 inch (400 pounds) when you drop the car, 
> the spring will only compress 1 additional?inch to reach a total load of 
> 800 pounds, so the car sits higher.
> ?
> ??? Hope this makes sense.
> ?
> Ken
>
> --- On Mon, 3/22/10, pantdino at aol.com <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: pantdino at aol.com <pantdino at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: tonydigi at optonline.net, panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Monday, March 22, 2010, 9:01 PM
>
>
>
> I'm not sure if its just terminology that we differ on, but here's my 
> thinking:
>
> The spring holds the car up.
> The bottom of the spring rests on the suspension arm, which is directly 
> attached to the wheel. So it is fixed in height.
> The longer (taller) the spring is the higher the car will sit above the 
> ground.
> So screwing down the adjuster to make the spring shorter (compress it) 
> will lower the car closer to the ground.
>
> Yes, when the shock is fully compressed to its internal bump stop (or the 
> spring coils touch each other) then resistance goes to infinity.? Actually 
> I think most shocks are not designed to support the weight of the car and 
> will be destroyed if you drive with them fully compressed.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
> To: pantdino at aol.com; panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 5:13 pm
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
> You can't really compress the spring to achieve lowering...compressing the
> pring in an adjustable shock raises the car until you extend the shock to
> ts mechanical limit, then it really doesn't increase your spring
> ATE...your rate immediately goes to infinity until you reach the preload
> reated, then the rate is same as it was.? Terrible result.
> My suggestion:? get the shorter spring, then if you need, add a proper
> pacer.? I'd be surprised if any Pantera used up the whole shock/spring
> hrow on any shock/spring combo.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> ehalf Of pantdino at aol.com
> ent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:02 PM
> o: panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> ubject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
> o you plan to lower the car at all?
> Are you going to continue to use the stock springs?
> This is kind of complicated in that if you want to lower the car the long
> hocks will not allow you to, or if you buy coilovers you will have to
> ompress? them down, thus increasing your spring rate
> If you plan to use the stock springs then you will want shocks with the 
> same
> orking length range as the stock ones.
> Jim
>
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> rom: panteratime at aol.com
> o: detomaso at realbig.com
> ent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 2:27 pm
> ubject: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
> olks,
> e guy at Aldan wasnt sure if I should get their 658HP or 655HP 
> shock--Wants
> e
> measure original shock on car.? This is for a rebound adjustable shock
> ith
> ly bushings $400 a set.? Any suggestions on which one I should get?? I
> derstand ride height is the difference.? My car is stock 1972 with 
> original
> ront shocks, not a race car!.
> anks in advance for your advice.
> _______________________________________________
> etomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 36
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:24:40 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com, tonydigi at optonline.net, panteratime at aol.com,
> detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC9857E3EB665C-3CEC-B6F5 at Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Oops. My bad.
> I will never again post anything regarding springs or shocks
> Please ignore my other post, which was sent before I read this one.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: pantdino at aol.com; tonydigi at optonline.net; panteratime at aol.com; 
> detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:14 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 21 02 27, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>
> I'm not sure if its just terminology that we differ on, but here's my 
> thinking:
>
> The spring holds the car up.
> The bottom of the spring rests on the suspension arm, which is directly 
> attached to the wheel. So it is fixed in height.
> The longer (taller) the spring is the higher the car will sit above the 
> ground.
> So screwing down the adjuster to make the spring shorter (compress it) 
> will lower the car closer to the ground.
>
> I'm not sure if its just terminology that we differ on, but here's my 
> thinking:
>
> The spring holds the car up.
> The bottom of the spring rests on the suspension arm, which is directly 
> attached to the wheel. So it is fixed in height.
> The longer (taller) the spring is the higher the car will sit above the 
> ground.
> So screwing down the adjuster to make the spring shorter (compress it) 
> will lower the car closer to the ground.
>
>
>>>>That's exactly wrong.
>
> The bottom of the spring doesn't rest on the suspension arm.  It rests on 
> the bottom spring perch, which is fixed on a conventional (stock) shock, 
> and is adjustable height on any aftermarket shock.  The height of the 
> spring is basically constant, regardless of where the spring perch is. 
> The free length when the car is in the air and the suspension is hanging 
> free, let's say, will be 10 inches.  If the distance between the upper and 
> lower perch is less than 10 inches, then the spring will be slightly 
> compressed.  Regardless of whether the spring is slightly compressed by 
> the adjustable perch or not, when the weight of the car is placed upon it, 
> it will compress to a fixed length due to the weight of the car--for sake 
> of argument, let's say it compresses to 6 inches.
>
> If the spring perch is lowered all the way down, then the bottom of the 
> spring will be closer to the ground, and the top of the spring (and the 
> car) will be a fixed height above that.  If the spring perch is raised all 
> the way up, then the bottom of the spring will be further away from the 
> ground, and the top of the spring (and the car) will be the SAME fixed 
> height above that.
>
> Lowering the spring perch lowers the car and raising it raises the car. 
> It's that simple.  It doesn't matter if, when the car is in the air, the 
> distance between the upper and lower spring perches is greater than, equal 
> to or lesser than the free length of the spring.  The spring will compress 
> to its natural compressed length when the weight of the car is placed on 
> it, and that length will remain constant as long as the weight of the car 
> remains constant.  The only variable is the location of the bottom spring 
> perch (since, in adjustable shocks, the upper perch is normally 
> fixed--although the shock can be inverted and the same principle still 
> applies).
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 37
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:26:42 EDT
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: pantdino at aol.com, MikeLDrew at aol.com, tonydigi at optonline.net,
> panteratime at aol.com, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <28ae0.67a37b82.38d99d02 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 21 24 48, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>
>> Oops. My bad.
>>  I will never again post anything regarding springs or shocks
>>  Please ignore my other post, which was sent before I read this one.
>>
>>
>
> HAHAHA!!!   Don't worry about it!   It's a great conversation! :>)
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 38
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:44:54 -0400
> From: pantdino at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8CC985AB72F4639-3CEC-B8E5 at Webmail-m109.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> It's an example of what happens when you put your fingers in motion before 
> putting your brain in gear.
> But it is true that I have a very limited understanding of springs and 
> shocks and should not post on this matter.
>
> Now I will break my promise.
>
> My understanding is that the shock has to ride about 1" into it's length 
> range at rest and therefore has about 2" more to compress when the wheel 
> hits a big bump or the car goes thru a depression.  So while a shock is 
> adjustable, it really is adjustable over a very limited range.  If you 
> crank it down 1.5" from it's full length because you want the car to look 
> cool, then set it on the ground so it compresses another 1" as the spring 
> is loaded, you only have 1/2" more of shock travel before it bottoms out 
> and is damaged and / or the spring rate becomes infinity.
>
> My brain short circuited from "shock shortening" to "spring compression"--  
> and fingers followed.
>
> Or did I mess up again?  :-)
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: pantdino at aol.com; MikeLDrew at aol.com; tonydigi at optonline.net; 
> panteratime at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 9:26 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Aldan shocks help!
>
>
>
> n a message dated 3/22/10 21 24 48, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
> Oops. My bad.
>  I will never again post anything regarding springs or shocks
>  Please ignore my other post, which was sent before I read this one.
>
>
> HAHAHA!!!   Don't worry about it!   It's a great conversation! :>)
> Mike
> ______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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> ttp://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> =
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 39
> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 03:11:43 EDT
> From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Show Car Crashed...
> To: pantdino at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <8d54.20d457e7.38d9c3af at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> In a message dated 3/22/10 2:24:45 PM, pantdino at aol.com writes:
>
>> My understanding is that the spare tire was moved to the rear because in
>> the DOT crash tests having it in the front led to force being transmitted
>> to the base of the windshield in lesser crashes.
>>
> Uhhh, no. What happened in the first 1970 crash test was, the unrestrained
> collapsible spare wheel/tire popped open the front hood and CAME THROUGH 
> THE
> WINDSHIElD! So horrified Ford engineers fixed it twice- by moving the
> assembly to the rear trunk tub and by adding a bolted tie down. The second 
> crash
> test with a rear mount spare was successful. Photographs of this ancient
> test were around for years but dunno where they might be now.   FWIW- my
> collapsible spare is up front- with a bolted tie down. And if you've added 
> 'big
> brakes', a stock collapsible spare will not fit over large calipers & 
> larger
> than 11-1/2" rotors. Cheers- J DeRyke
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
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>
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 68, Issue 23
> ****************************************
>


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