[DeTomaso] myth of Pantera braking force limiter?

[pantdino at aol.com]

I have disassembled all 4 rear calipers.
The two original ones were pretty healthy, although one piston in each was pretty stiff and probably not contributing to braking much.
All the pistons in the 'additonal" calipers were frozen to one degree or other. One outboard "direct" piston won't even move at all with hitting the piston from the inside with a hammer with the caliper in a vise , using a piece of pipe to avoid hitting the locking gizmo.   I think that can safely be called frozen. 

So I rebuilt the original calipers and all the pistons move with thumb pressure. 

It seems to me that the "extra" calipers were just adding drag and no braking at all, while my rebuild of the original calipers will increase my rear braking.  So I should have better balance than I did and that seemed to be adequate for the use I put the car to.

thanks to everyone for all the advice,

Jim






-----Original Message-----
From: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
To: JDeRyke at aol.com
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com; pantdino at aol.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 21, 2010 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] myth of Pantera braking force limiter?


Proper adjustments of brakes is key to good braking. A lot of the MG 
uys will defend the drum brakes because they can "lock them up" so they 
ust be good. What they fail to understand is balance is key. While they 
ay their braking is great they then say something like the left locks 
p before the right which negates good balance and good braking. 6 
onths later their drum bias changes again.
Stock brakes, stock car, stock proportioning, stock tires, how much of 
his is still the same?
When I got my Pantera it had a lot of stuff on it like the dual MC with 
alance bar in front of the booster. A pretty common after market set up 
n the Pantera. Like many things on the car when I got it, it was 
nstalled but not adjusted. My front brakes locked up too soon. The 
esult was every time I came to a stop sign, the fronts would skid with 
ut the car really slowing down. It wasn't just bad it was dangerous. So 
ike amny other things on the car I spent an afternoon adjusting.
Everyone knows you don't want the backs to lock up but it isn't as 
imple as that. With too much bias front or back the brakes don't work 
ogether. I needed to find the point at which the rears locked up first 
o I could define the threshold. I adjusted the balance bar, went out 
ocked up the brakes, came back and did it again. I did so till the 
ears would lock up first.
At that point I reversed the process slowly till I found the spot where 
he fronts locked up right before the rears. What I ended up with is a 
et up where the fronts and the backs worked together. The back pulled 
he car down and really made the fronts dig in. Both scenarios the 
ronts locked up first but before I adjusted them, the car would slowly 
kid to a stop at every stop sign. After adjusted I could slam on the 
rakes and it would throw you into the windshield.
The moral of the story is the ability to adjust your bias is a good 
hing especially if there is anything about the car which is not stock.
G
JDeRyke at aol.com wrote:
 In a message dated 3/20/10 8:39:58 PM, pantdino at aol.com writes:

   
> If it seems to lock up in front early I'll put a valve in.
>
>     

 If it locks up in front under panic-stop force, fine. You won't need a 
 nanny-valve - you can simply modulate your brake-foot force in 
ther-than-panic 
 situations, and add bigger/wider tires at your leisure to take advantage of 
 the excess braking force you already have available. 
 On the other hand, rear lock-up causes spins and car instability, and thats 
 where a "brake control valve" is occasionally needed. Good luck- J Deryke
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