[DeTomaso] Clutch help

pantdino at aol.com pantdino at aol.com
Sat Jun 26 01:52:00 EDT 2010


that works if there is no air in the system.

Once air gets in, my experience is that you have to have rapid fluid motion to get the pockets of air to come through. 
Also, with gravity bleeding the fluid motion is SO slow that you could have old fluid left in the lower portions of the cavities.
For instance, if the input line and bleed screw are near each other and at the upper end of a cylinder or caliper, the new fluid could simply shunt from one to the other without actually swishing out the fluid from the bottom of the cylinder / caliper.

Jim






-----Original Message-----
From: John Buckman <jb841 at cox.net>
To: pantdino at aol.com
Cc: boyd411 at gmail.com; wdemelo at cogeco.ca; detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 10:23 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Clutch help


I've always been able to gravity bleed my clutch system.
ut a hose onto the bleeder screw and into a container.
ake sure that the reservoir is full and open the bleeder screw.
ake sure that the reservoir doesn't run dry.
John


n Jun 25, 2010, at 9:47 PM, pantdino at aol.com wrote:
> 
 In contrast to the braking system, the clutch system is just one master 
ylinder and one slave with a single line going between them. Not many places 
or air to get trapped.
 If you think you have an air pocket that is not getting entrained in the fluid 
s it goes thru, have your assistant push down hard on the pedal as you open the 
leed screw a lot-- the fluid will shoot thru the system at high speed and 
ntrain any air.
 I did that with my brakes to good effect.
 
 You shouldn't need a power bleeder for the clutch.
 
 Do you know what happens if something fails in the power bleeder?  Brake fluid 
prays everywhere. Do you know what that does to paint?  It ruins it. Not worth 
he risk in my opinion.
 
 Jim Oddie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
 To: Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca>
 Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
 Sent: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 8:44 pm
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Clutch help
 
 
 http://www.motiveproducts.com/
 On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Will Demelo <wdemelo at cogeco.ca> wrote:
> Where's a link to the power bleeder?
 Will
 ----- Original Message ----- From: "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
 To: <tmshinro at aol.com>
 Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
 Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Clutch help
 
 
 
 Again I am not an expert and although I did solve my problem I never was
> able to find out what the problem was. Anyway I would be more inclined to
> think you haveing air leaking in then having fluid leaking out. This could
> be furthur evideb\ced by the fact that air in you clutch line will cause
> the
> clutch "spongy" and repeated  pumping the clutch pedal will compress the
> air
> in the system until the clutch works, then after sitting for a while the
> air
> will expand again and the clutch will stop disengaging again.  Have you
> gotten the power bleeder yet? If not you need to do that. The power
> bleeder
> takes around two quarts of fluid and pushes it through at around 45PSI.
> All
> I know is after I replaced my fittings and  used the power bleeder my
> problem was solved. If you look at the number hours you have spent and the
> frustration as well as the fact that you cant drive your car the Power
> bleeder is a small investment to make to get the problem solved.
> Boyd
> 
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:24 PM, <tmshinro at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> First I want to thank everyone that sent me suggestions.   I'm still
>> trying to figure it out but I have a couple more questions.
>> 
>> I started the car the next morning to move the car forward in my garage
>> after I experienced clutch drag the night before when I pulled the car in
>> the garage .  Everything worked fine; I was able to shift into all gears
>> while stationary with the engine running.  When I depressed the clutch
>> pedal
>> I could "feel" the clutch disengage well before the bottom of the stroke.
>> The clutch engaged about half way up when I pulled the car forward and
>> totally disengaged when I pushed the clutch in when I stopped.  I didn't
>> take in out because I know I would see clutch drag after 10 to 15 minutes
>> of
>> driving based on numerous prior test runs.
>> 
>> Here's my question - I measure 0.020 inches of clearance between the
>> clutch
>> disk and pressure plate.  I don't see any separation between the clutch
>> disk
>> and the flywheel, but when I move the car by hand with the clutch pedal
>> depressed I can see the clutch disk move between the flywheel and
>> pressure
>> plate.  Should I be seeing measurable separation at the flywheel as well
>> as
>> the pressure plate?   From what I have been told I'm don't have as much
>> separation as I should (0.020 vs 0.030), so I'm wondering if things are
>> expanding when hot and consuming what little clearance I have.
>> Unfortunately, I can't get anymore clearance unless I use up all my free
>> play (which I've cut down to about 0.060 inches).   Is there enough
>> heat/expansion between the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate to make a
>> difference?
>> 
>> Also I should mention that the clutch master I installed was one I bought
>> 10 years ago from Collectors Choice.  The MC sat in my tool chest with
>> the
>> outlet plugged the whole time time.  I live in Iowa so there were plenty
>> of
>> humid days that the MC would have seen in my garage.  I disassembled it
>> prior to assembly and the bore and seals looked good and I could tell
>> that
>> the seals were tighter that my old one when I manually pushed the push
>> rod
>> into the bore. I took the MC out a second time to measure the pushrod and
>> did not see any fluid leaks in the rubber boot.  However, when I bled the
>> system, the fluid that came out of the bleeder looked clear through the
>> plastic tube I used but was dark once it was collected in a plastic
>> bottle.
>> Is it possible that the seals could have deteriorated causing blow by?
>> Would it make sense that blow by would get worse after cycling the
>> clutch
>> for 10 to 15 minutes?  The fluid in the reservoir is clear.
>> 
>> Unfortunately I didn't think about measuring the bore of the new MC and
>> comparing it to the old.  I'm assuming they are the same, which if they
>> are,
>> baffles me because I never had clutch problems before this.
>> 
>> The battle goes on.
>> 
>> Tom
>> #5186
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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