[DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
Charles Engles
cengles at cox.net
Wed Jun 23 23:18:07 EDT 2010
Dear Kirby,
I remember that day well. I had a good time on the track, but engine was making a "funny" sound. You and JT plus TumTum Tunnell diagnosed bad bearings and time for a trailer. I recall that you were the very first person that suggested that I build my own engine. I had never considered doing that. After three or four professional local rebuilds and after some consideration, I decided that I couldn't do much worse than the local pro and if I really screwed up then he would have to rebuild it anyway. That was the first step on a ten year adventure in engine building. Really!
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On Behalf Of Kirby Schrader
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 2:11 PM
To: Pantera List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
What I personally really, really like about this is that this is the
same Chuck that asked me years ago at Texas Motorsports Ranch about
advice on finding a decent engine builder because all his engines kept
dying and I said to Mr. Engles...
'Why don't you build them yourself?'
He looked at me in surprise and said, 'Really?'
The rest is history.... we have another expert in our midst!
:-)
(OK, OK... I know I'm kinda' paraphrasing here with regard to the
conversation, Chuck.... but it's close!)
FWIW,
Kirby
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 13:53, Larry - Ohio Time Corp
<larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr. Engles,
>
>
> 40+ years of motor work and I never heard of anyone, but you, say to port
> match the water pump. What a good idea! Where has my head been? (Yes it's
> dark in there.)
>
> Just BRILLIANT!
>
> Hence forth in my shop this procedure will be known as "Chucking" the motor.
>
>
>
> Larry - Cleveland
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> Behalf Of Charles Engles
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:39 PM
> To: 'Tony DiGiovanna'
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
>
> Dear Tony,
>
>
> One other place to look for a hidden restriction is the front engine
> plate. I have a collection of, umm, six or seven plates. Four or five
> are loose in the parts warehouse. Someone smarter and more observant than
> me told me that there were *two* versions of the engine plate. I looked at
> mine and he was right. One of the plates had openings for the water pump
> that were bigger than the other plates. Apparently, there were two
> stampings. One stamping has a terrible mismatch for the size of the plate
> opening with the engine block and with the pump. The other stamping has
> much more modest restrictions. I was shown that if you then take a FelPro
> water pump gasket and add it's fitment to the block,plate and pump opening
> mismatches, then it can add further impedance to flow.
>
> Consequently, as you are trying to rationally sort out your hot engine
> and you're not finding any obvious source, then you might consider the
> "heart" of the cooling system: the triad of the front of the block, the
> front engine plate and pump (and the gasket). I would think that coolant
> flow is impeded in an average 351C and could be optimized with attention to
> these physical mismatches. In particularly bad cases where everything is
> especially mismatched with others, then flow might be bad enough for a hot
> engine with no easy answer in the usual places. I don't know that, but I
> think it is possible.
>
> I will attach secret photos visible only to you (as the list strips
> attachments). See what you think.
>
>
> Your fellow engine builder, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony DiGiovanna [mailto:tonydigi at optonline.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:38 PM
> To: wkooiman at earthlink.net; 'Tomas Gunnarsson'; detomaso at realbig.com;
> 'Charles Engles'
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
>
> Here is why I raise the question, and here is what I think:
> I have an engine that runs 230 deg F in my Pantera, when all of my previous
> engines ran 190.
> It ran hotter before I removed the perfectly functional thermostat. It ran
> hotter before I had the radiator cleaned. It ran hotter before I flushed
> the block out backwards. This engine just runs hotter. Everything else
> checks out OK. If there is an issue, it is not an easy one to find/correct.
> I'd like to bring the temp down.
>
> Water always flows by pressure differential, so I think all the holes flow
> some from the block into the head. I think the holes are sized to be the
> controlling orifice of the system; 1) to ensure positive delta-P along the
> entire head (like a pull-up resister for you EEs) so flow is ensured in one
> direction. 2) to ensure some fresh flow along the middle and front of the
> head. Otherwise, the rear cylinders would always be colder and the front
> hotter.
>
> However, I think the sizing is based on factory engineering or experience
> with the stock 260HP engine and component. I think the old additional
> "steam hole" revision was actually just an increase in water flow. Not sure
> what steam has to do with it. The system isn't in steam phase unless it's
> already boiling - too late.
>
> I'm thinking the flow thru entire engine could be increased by increasing
> all the holes by a fixed percentage of area and result in a decrease in my
> water temperature, maybe.
>
> I'm probably going to try it. I'll post results.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> Behalf Of wkooiman at earthlink.net
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 9:13 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
>
> Don't make the tiny holes bigger. They are steam holes.
>
> The water enters both sides of the block by the water pump. It travels to
> the back, and enters the heads. It flows through the heads and back to the
> front. It re-enters the block, then to the thermostat in the block, and to
> the water bottles.
>
> If you make the steam holes larger, too much water will flow from the middle
> of the block to the heads. I don't know if it would happen, but I'd bet it
> would cause the head to run hot near the rear of the block.
>
> If you make the large hole near the front of the block larger, it should
> make the water flow faster - assuming the hole is a restriction. My guess
> is the restriction is the thermostat housing, though, so if you make the the
> large holes larger, it shouldn't do anything.
>
> I wouldn't mess with any of the holes in the head gasket. They are a
> specific size for a reason.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
>>Sent: Jun 15, 2010 3:32 PM
>>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
>>
>>Which holes are you talking about? All or only selected holes?
>>
>>Tomas
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Tony DiGiovanna
>>Sent: den 14 juni 2010 23:59
>>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>Subject: [DeTomaso] Head Gasket Holes
>>
>>
>>So..what happens if you make the water passage holes in the head gaskets
>>bigger?
>>
>>
>>
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