[DeTomaso] Roland Jackel-from the PI board

boyd casey boyd411 at gmail.com
Mon Jun 21 11:48:16 EDT 2010


Your strategy for using Paypal and linking it to your credit card is great
....in Theory. When I recently paid johnny Woods to modify my front upper
A-arms I wanted to do the same thing. Pay pal would not let me pay my Paypal
invoice by credit card. They insisted on a direct debit from my primary
checking account. I don't know why they did this I have a premiere (or what
ever it's called pay pal account ) and no complaints or black marks. So I
had no choice. Luckily Johnny Woods was great as was the quality of his
work. So I had no problems and the recent devaluation of the Euro worked to
my advantage.
Boyd

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:37 AM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't want to jump in here willy nilly, the whole who's account #  paid
> for shipping /insurance thing is the major problem here.
>
> In 99% of all cases, the shipper is the seller who pays the fees for
> shipping through the sellers account and the shipper assumes the risk of
> the
> product(s) getting where it goes or filing a claim if it doesn't.
>
> That didn't happen here and should be a lesson to all, when you try to cut
> corners, it can bite you in the ass.
>
> Same thing with payment, why I use PayPal most of the time and them pay
> Paypal with a Credit Card, that gives me not one but two recourse actions
> to
> get my money back if the product never arrives or is damaged.
>
> As a mediator, I would point out ( as has been done ) that UPS now owns the
> ZF, anybody who wants the remains needs to deal with UPS.
>
> I would also point out that anything that you buy isn't yours until you get
> it, that's one of the reasons that you sign for it and why anybody with
> half
> a brain will open up and inspect a fragile item before signing for it when
> it is delivered by UPS, FEDEX or a common carrier, sorry, but screw the
> driver's time, once you accept the package it's yours!  If it is damaged,
> you simply refuse to sign and they take it back.
>
> Then you get a refund.
>
> IMHO.
>
> The buyer is entitled to a full and complete refund at the price/value that
> he paid plus any incurred expenses, any taxes and duties can be refunded as
> well from whomever they were actually paid to,, since nothing was actually
> bought, so that's another issue.
>
> The owner is entitled to the insurance payment because it was their
> property
> that was damaged.
>
> The third party who was caught in the middle of this isn't entitled to
> profit or lose and money at all, but the deal went bust and that's the risk
> that middlemen take in business.
>
> Having said that, the owner had a deal with the seller, it would be the
> right thing to do to give the seller the profit he was expecting, esp if
> they valued the relationship and after all, the owner did eventually get
> exactly what they were expecting in return, if not more.
>
> Everybody involved and anybody reading this email is entitled to contact
> UPS
> and offer to buy the ZF, it belongs to them, anything other than that is
> stealing from UPS.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:14 AM, <JJD1010 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/20/2010 7:31:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > pantdino at aol.com writes:
> >
> > For example, it seems to me:
> >
> > Jim sold Roland a ZF for  $4000,
> > The ZF was not Jim's own property-- he was acting as agent for a
>  customer
> > Roland paid Jim (or the customer?) in full before the box was  shipped.
> > The box was damaged in shipment.
> > UPS paid Jim $4000 to  compensate for the damaged box.
> > Jim sent the money to Roland, refunding him  in full.
> >
> > Roland still has the box and feels he has the right to keep it  AND the
> > refunded money
> >
> > Are these statements  correct?
> >
> > If so, I believe that if Roland thinks about it  some more he will
> realize
> > he has the right to keep the box or the $4000, but  not both.
> >
> > The whole business of whose UPS number was used and therefore who
>  insured
> > the item adds some confusion, but the overall picture is clear.
> >
> >
> > Jim Oddie
> >
> >
> > ______________
> >
> > I'm not taking sides here but this is really a legal issue as to  when
> > title to the goods transferred, which I believe is covered by the UCC,
>  the
> > Uniform Commercial Code. Any lawyers out there want to comment. I may be
> >  wrong,
> > but I would think that title(ownership) to the ZF transfers when  it is
> > paid for, not when it is received, unless there is a bill of sale to the
> > contrary.
> >
> > Theoretically, the insurance is to reimburse Roland for  his cost to
> repair
> > the damage on the ZF that he owns. Therefore, the insurance  money,
> > regardless of the actual cost to repair, would go to  Roland since he was
> > the
> > rightful owner of the ZF at the time of the  damage. The owner has
> received
> > his
> > bargained for sale price of $4000 so  he is already whole under the law
> and
> > should not be entitled to the insurance  proceeds.
> >
> > The fact that the shipper's UPS account was used is a moot point.  Some
> > other things to consider that could theoretically help or muddy the
> >  argument
> > are: 1) did Roland pay Jim for the shipping? 2) for the  insurance? 3)
> was
> > shipping included in the negotiated and agreed sale  price? the
> insurance?
> >
> > Lastly, it is conceivable that the seller could take out  a side
> contract,
> > independent of the sale agreement, to insure the value  of the ZF. I'm
> not
> > really sure that this is legal since he no longer owned the  ZF, but in
> > that
> > case, he would be entitled to those  proceeds.
> >
> > Jeff
> > 6559
> >
> >
> >
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> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
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