[DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results

jgkrenton at comcast.net jgkrenton at comcast.net
Sun Jun 13 12:28:52 EDT 2010




Thomas/Thomas et-al: 



The airplane guys solved this problem many years ago.  They use a great external connector for jumping/ground power.  AN-2552-3A and similar.  I've seen these used on Panteras in the past where the battery was hidden under the front trunk floor or such.  You just need to mount this connector someplace where it's easy to get to and then connect it to your battery or starter solenoid battery terminal and a solid ground such as the starter mounting bolt or something..   Then you get a choice of several different mating connectors so you can make up custom jumper cables, buy the airplane ones which are pretty nice, or just hook existing jumper cables up to studs on a plug that mates the AN-2552-3a that might be the best bet since your probably relying on someone else's cables....  



The airplane connectors typically live under a little door on the outside of the airplane near the engine.  It would be real easy to mount one of these connectors in the engine compartment or right rear wheel well where it's easy to get to and it would have short cables to the starter solenoid. 



They also give you a good place to plug in a battery tender during those long snowy winters.. 



You can buy new AN-2552-3As for less than $70 US.  But they were also used on many military airplanes so the surplus/scrap dealers often have them laying around too.  



Heres a source for new ones: 



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/extpowerrect.php 



Mating cables: 



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/jumpercables.php 



Auto jumper cables to Airplane connector adapter: 



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php 



Good luck! 



Jeff 2467. 






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se> 
To: "Thomas Tornblom" <Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se>, detomaso at realbig.com 
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:17:13 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 

Yes, you can get both kits of two and single + connectors from Summit too. I 
have a dual connector kit unused that I bought a while back but never 
installed. You basically drill an oversize hole and mount the stud with 
plastic washers/spacers. 

Tomas 

-----Original Message----- 
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com 
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Thomas Tornblom 
Sent: den 13 juni 2010 17:01 
To: detomaso at realbig.com 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 


2010-06-13 16:46, Tomas Gunnarsson skrev: 
> Summit has them too: 
> 
> 
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=remote%20battery%20joumper&dds=1 

The audi unit is mounted on a flat surface with just a pair of sheet 
metal screws. It is just the + connector. The ground is through a bolt 
spot welded to the body. 

> 
> Tomas 

Thomas 

> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com 
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Thomas Tornblom 
> Sent: den 13 juni 2010 13:30 
> To: detomaso at realbig.com 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
> 
> 
> Some audis, my 1996 a6 is an example, has a dedicated jumper cable 
> connection under the hood. The battery is mounted under the rear seat. 
> 
> Might be a good idea to salvage one of these and mount in the engine 
> compartment of the Pantera. 
> 
> Thomas 
> 
> 
> 2010-06-13 10:35, Tomas Gunnarsson skrev: 
>> I like to use some part of the driveline. The bellhousing should be the 
>> closest circuit to the starter as they're bolted together. I've also used 
>> the intake. If the clamp design allows it putting the red lead on the 
>> starter relay stud is a good idea IMO. 
>> 
>> Tomas 
>>     -----Original Message----- 
>>     From: pantdino at aol.com [mailto:pantdino at aol.com] 
>>     Sent: den 13 juni 2010 05:05 
>>     To: guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com 
>>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     Good point, although one can simply modify the rule a little and 
clamp 
>> elsewhere. 
>> 
>>     Where do people connect the black lead when jump starting a Pantera? 
> The 
>> brake booster? 
>> 
>>     Jim 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     -----Original Message----- 
>>     From: Tomas Gunnarsson<guson at home.se> 
>>     To: pantdino at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com 
>>     Sent: Sat, Jun 12, 2010 3:01 pm 
>>     Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>>     It can be simplified to three lines. 
>> 
>>     The last connector to be clamped on is the black one on the "dead 
car". 
>>     That connection must be made away from the battery. 
>>     Remove all connections in reverse order to when you connected them. 
>> 
>>     While your rule may fall within my description it fails to avoid 
arcing 
>> close to the battery. 
>> 
>>     Tomas 
>>       -----Original Message----- 
>>       From: pantdino at aol.com [mailto:pantdino at aol.com] 
>>       Sent: den 12 juni 2010 23:35 
>>       To: guson at home.se; detomaso at realbig.com 
>>       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>>       Your instructions are very clear.  But one must memorize them or 
> truly 
>> understand the physics involved. 
>>       I like my rule because it does not require either of those.  Maybe 
> I'm 
>> just not very smart. :-) 
>> 
>>       Jim 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>       -----Original Message----- 
>>       From: Tomas Gunnarsson<guson at home.se> 
>>       To: detomaso at realbig.com 
>>       Sent: Sat, Jun 12, 2010 2:00 pm 
>>       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>> To me it's pretty simple. 
>> 
>> 1. Connect red jumper cable to the + side of one of the batteries. No 
>> posibility of arcing. 
>> 2. Connect red jumper cable to the + side of the other battery. No 
>> posibility of arcing. 
>> 3. Connect black jumper cable to the - side of the donor car battery.  No 
>> posibility of arcing. 
>> 4. Connect black jumper cable to ground point away from receiving battery 
>> (typically some part of the engine) on the "dead car". Probable arcing. 
>> 
>> 5. Start "dead car". 
>> 6. Remove cable end attached at step 4. 
>> 7. Remove remaining cables, order not important. 
>> 
>> Tomas 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com 
>> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of pantdino at aol.com 
>> Sent: den 12 juni 2010 22:33 
>> To: jb841 at cox.net; shawkins777 at comcast.net 
>> Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; detomaso at realbig.com; thomas at Hax.SE 
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>> So the rule "never let the ground be on there alone" or whatever it is 
> still 
>> applies to whether you are hooking up a battery or jumping, apparently. 
>> 
>> Jim Oddie 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: John Buckman<jb841 at cox.net> 
>> To: Steve Hawkins<shawkins777 at comcast.net> 
>> Cc: michael at michaelshortt.com; 'DeTomaso Forum'<detomaso at realbig.com>; 
>> 'Thomas Tornblom'<thomas at Hax.SE> 
>> Sent: Thu, Jun 10, 2010 3:42 pm 
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>> The wire that is connected last will arc if there is the potential for 
>> current 
>> o flow. 
>> The wire that is disconnected first will arc if there is current flowing. 
>> When using jumper cables, always CONNECT the ground last, and always 
>> DISCONNECT 
>> he ground first.  Do not connect the ground to the battery.  Connect the 
>> ground 
>> o the engine (or frame). 
>> hen you connect the ground cable, there will be an arc.  You do not want 
>> that 
>> rc to be near the battery as it could ignite flammable gasses that may be 
>> scaping from the battery vents (read  BOOM). 
>> John 
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Steve Hawkins wrote: 
>>> Then why do you get sparks when you install the ground first or remove 
it 
>>    last? 
>> 
>>    Steve 
>> 
>>    -----Original Message----- 
>>    From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com 
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
> On 
>>    Behalf Of Thomas Tornblom 
>>    Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 2:35 PM 
>>    To: michael at michaelshortt.com 
>>    Cc: DeTomaso Forum 
>>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD Box Autopsy Results 
>> 
>> 
>>    The only reason for disconnecting the ground first is to avoid any 
>>    shorts to ground while you're fiddling with the positive cable. 
>>    Electrically there is zero difference whichever cable you disconnect 
>>    first. 
>> 
>> 
>>    Mental note to self: steer clear of any MSD ignition... 
>> 
>> 
>>    10 jun 2010 kl. 21.18 skrev "michael at michaelshortt.com" 
>>    <michaelsavga at gmail.com 
>>> : 
>> 
>>> I just received my original MSD box back from repair with a note, Too 
>>> damaged to repair, circuit board fried! 
>>> 
>>> I called and asked for a tech who could go over the notes, 
>>> 
>>> they asked if I had a one wire alternator...No 
>>> 
>>> Asked if I had disconnected the battery using the Positive post 
>>> first...No, 
>>> but who knew that mattered? 
>>> 
>>> Then it hit me, I had left the fan on ( stupid fan!!!!! ) and had to 
>>> be jump 
>>> started before I left the last place I was at before it died, 
>>> 
>>> I let SOMEBODY ELSE attach the jumper cables while I started the 
>>> car, and 
>>> then remove them once it kicked over 
>>> 
>>> By removing the Positive cable first and the Ground cable last, the 
>>> MSD dude 
>>> said that it spiked the system. 
>>> 
>>> WTF? 
>>> 
>>> I ran for about 5 minutes after that and then backfired and died. 
>>> 
>>> So now we have something new to debate..... 
>>> 
>>> Michael Shortt 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile, the MSD Box 6AL and Tach Adapter are being removed from 
>>> the rear 
>>> firewall and  relocated to the front boot, 
>>> now there won't even be room for panties and condoms in the front! 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael L. Shortt 
>>> Savannah, Georgia 
>>> www.michaelshortt.com 
>>> michael at michaelshortt.com 
>>> 912-232-9390 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy 
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>>> notified 
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>>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender 
>>> that you 
>>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you 
>>> _______________________________________________ 
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> 
> -- 
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