[DeTomaso] Carpet or Not (Re: Asa's installing the roll cage)

Sun Jan 31 05:20:29 EST 2010

Hi,

Look at FIA's safe regulation; you can NOT have something  plastic carpet,
etc. between the cage or belt attachment points. If you are going to get it
approved by the FIA, I know you do not go after the FIA's rules, but you can
see and if you make as FIA, stuff like belts, cage sits securely.

the body must be reinforced with a steel plate of at least 3 mm thick and
with a surface area of 120cm2, welded to the body.
the belts is same but it is a smaller 40 cm2 steel plate.

FIA's safe regulation

Page 147

The fixation of the rollbar pillars must be done with at least three bolts.
The attachment points of the front and main rollbars on the body must be
reinforced with a steel plate of at least 3 mm thick and with a surface area
of 120cm2, welded to the body. Hexagonal bolts or similar, of a minimum
diameter of 8mm (minimum quality 8-8 as per the ISO specifications) shall be
used. The nuts shall be self-locking or fitted with locking washers.
These fixations represent a minimum. It is possible to increase the number
of bolts, to weld the steel rollbar to the body shell.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/4BE77DE77752B58FC125768E003AB969/$F
ILE/Annexe%20K%202010-11.12.09.pdf

Anders

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fran: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]For Asa Jay Laughton
Skickat: den 31 januari 2010 07:00
Till: detomaso at realbig.com
Amne: [DeTomaso] Carpet or Not (Re: Asa's installing the roll cage)

I think this has been very interesting and enlightening feedback, from
everyone.  My Dad also went through Aviation Safety and Accident
Investigation School over 20 years ago.  I have a lot of respect for that.

The carpet in my Pantera is original.  It has some really nice (and
large) holes in it on the drivers side that are covered -nicely- with a
set of DeTomaso logo floor mats.  It looks real pretty when all cleaned
up.  You'd never know there were holes in the carpet.

Once I get this roll cage bolted down, on top the carpet (remember this
is a test fit), I'll have a perfect template.  I can then take a nice
sharp blade to the carpet and cut out the area where the flange meets
the rocker.  Remove the cage for powder coating, finish up the carpet
cut and I'll be set.

I'm using Grade 8 bolts for the assembly.

I don't intend to put this cat on it's roof, but then, who does?  I
imagine Jim Saxon never planned his rollover either.  I also don't plan
on going faster than Mad Dog..... unless I'm driving -his- Pantera.  ;)

I'd just like to say I appreciated this insight and will be mindful of
it, as I think others should be as well.
Thank you,
Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]

******************************
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com

MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/30/10 17 34 37, guson at home.se writes:
>
>
>
>> Carpet between cage and car: Big time no-no IMO.
>>
>>
>
> If the cage is just there for looks (as most of them are), then it's not a
> problem.   But if you're installing a roll cage with the idea that you
might
> actually want it to function someday, then yes, you're absolutely right.
> It's critical that you get metal-to-metal contact between the feet of the
> roll cage, and the chassis of the car, which means the carpet HAS to go.
>
> Car crashes can be incredibly violent things.   In an impact, the carpet
> would easily crush and allow the roll cage to move around.   There is a
shear
> plane there, and the bolts could easily shear and cause the roll cage to
> come loose, rendering it useless.   That's one of the many things I
learned
> (well, not about roll cages and carpet specifically, but rather more
generally)
> when I went to the Air Force's crash investigation school.  We studied
> failures that led to airplane crashes, as well as failures that took place
> during the course of crashes, and one of the important points that was
stressed
> was that when two things that are supposed to be bolted together are
tight,
> they are strong, but when the bolts are loose (which is what they would be
if
> there was carpet between them), they are incredibly weak, and the weak
link
> is the bolts.
>
> It would not surprise me if a roll cage that was bolted on top of carpet
> would fail tech, if the tech inspector noticed it.
>
> Figure out where the footprint of the cage is on the carpets, mark them,
> then cut the carpet there.   If you don't want to leave the cage in place
> permanently, you can probably glue the carpet back in place on a
semi-permanent
> basis, or come up with some other aesthetically pleasing solution.
>
> Mike
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