[DeTomaso] Speed Camera Tickets Not Valid?

Tue Jan 12 20:28:28 EST 2010

This is my industry.  I work with toll roads, but red-light cameras are a sister industry.

Whether you have to pay the ticket or not is up to the various state laws. I guarantee you that the state legislatures have written the laws to allow them to pursue red-light tickets.  It costs a lot of money to set up these systems, and they generate a lot of revenue.  If people could simply ignore the tickets, they wouldn't do much good, would they?

That doesn't mean there aren't loopholes, though.  For instance, the laws are state laws.  The enforcement is generally done through driver's license renewals (blocking them), vehicle registrations (blocking them), and jail time.  They won't come and get you, but if you have an outstanding ticket, they might stick you in jail the next time you're pulled over - not for $15 outstanding, but don't push it.  So, for example, if you get a red-light ticket while driving through Utah, and your driver's license is in Florida, and your registration is in Florida, and you're never going to go through Utah again, you probably don't have to pay the ticket.  I wouldn't advise it, though.  Just pay the ticket - and buy a six-pack of Shiner.

You might have a defense if it wasn't you in the car.  Normally the ticket is to the registered owner.  In this case, the burden of proof is on you.  You have to prove it wasn't you that was driving the car - by providing the information for the driver - and then they'll get the ticket.  Don't lie.

If your car is registered out of state, they might still send you a ticket, but it's difficult for them to enforce the ticket.  For example, if you have Texas tags and you get a red-light camera in California, it's difficult for California to block your vehicle registration in Texas.  If it becomes a problem, however, they'll find a way.  They have to.  Otherwise, the system doesn't work.

They tack on fees to deter the habitual offender.  You don't have to be that habitual, either.  For example, in Texas, the tolls average about $1.50, but the violation fees run around $15 per violation.  If you violate 3 times (an average toll road trip), you're looking at nearly $50 in "tickets".  It gets worse if you take it to court and lose (up to $900).  And you normally lose.  Just pay the damn ticket.

I don't know how they handle red-light cameras when you don't pay.  I bet you're going to see significant fees sooner or later.

The cameras are pretty darn accurate.  We test toll road equipment to 99.97%.  We verify the equipment by letting it run, and then watching video to verify that it's recording data properly.  I bet money a human can't consistently run at 99.97% accuracy - especially if a torque wrench is involved.

Personally - I don't care for toll roads or red light cameras.  I also don't like taxes, though.  Our nation's infrastructure has to be paid for one way or the other.  If it isn't funded through traffic violations, you have to increase taxes somewhere else.  I guess I do prefer toll roads over increased income/sales taxes.  I don't mind red-light cameras.  I don't like speeding cameras - at all.

Here are a few more toll road observations:

A typical toll road segment can be built in about 3 years.  The same road segment that uses traditional funding takes 15-20 years.  Why?  It's the same people building the roads.  It's because the toll road construction doesn't stop when they run out of funding.

Toll roads tend to be better maintained (why?  they're an asset - not a liability).

There are fewer speed traps on toll road.  (why?  the goal is to make it safe and fast - they don't want to slow down traffic to collect more funds - they still pull you over for speeding, but usually only if you are unsafe - the way it should be)

The toll roads in Houston have courtesy trucks to give you a free tow if your car breaks down.  The non-toll roads in Houston will tow you too, but you have to pay the contract rate.  It's called customer service on the toll roads.  It's a revenue generator (through political favors, I suppose) for the non-toll roads.  The toll roads will even give you free gas if you ran out, or they'll change your flat - all for free.  They won't reattach your #4 piston, but they'll try.

That's all for me.  Off my soap box now.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Erik Anderson <eanderson at geotracinternational.com>
>Sent: Jan 12, 2010 12:31 PM
>To: Brent Stewart <bjbstewart at yahoo.com>, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Speed Camera Tickets Not Valid?
>
>COOL!
>
>I got a photo radar ticket this summer and haven't paid it yet.  I have
>to renew my plates and license before the end of the month ... so I will
>play dumb and see what happens.
>
>Stay tuned ...
>
>EA
>#3528
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>On Behalf Of Brent Stewart
>Sent: January-12-10 10:41 AM
>To: Larry Finch; detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Speed Camera Tickets Not Valid?
>
>Ok, i'm qualified to comment having received a photo ticket in AZ and am
>personal friends with a CA cop.
>
>For CA - throw it away, you are exactly right - with out the signature,
>they are not valid.  But photo radar was challenged in court a few years
>back and for the most part (at least in the bay area), photo from the
>parked white van are no longer happening. Note, this does NOT count for
>red light violations. 
>
>As for AZ, i did receive one in a rental car I was driving over the
>summer. I did pay it as I had heard that they are far more serious about
>these in AZ than we are in CA.  There was no signature required when I
>received it, so claiming that i never got it could have been plausible
>but I didn't want to push it.
>
>brent
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 8:23:17 AM
>Subject: [DeTomaso] Speed Camera Tickets Not Valid?
>
>I just read an article about the Arizona speed camera system.
>
>Seems with those mailed notices, you have not legally been served with  
>the violation - as they have no way to prove you received the notice.
>
>Remember how the cop says "sign here" whenever you get ticketed? And  
>they say it is not an admission of guilt, just an admission you have  
>received the ticket?
>
>Well, in Arizona, unless you are personally served within 90 days of  
>the photo camera violation, the notice expires.
>
>So MANY Arizonians just ignore the mailed notices and wait out the 90  
>days. With all government budget strained, there is no money to have  
>process servers driving all over towns hand delivering speeding  
>notices, so that photo camera 'violation' just goes away as long as  
>you ignore it.
>
>Anyone know the legality of such tickets here in California, or other  
>states?
>
>Larry
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