[DeTomaso] supercharger questions

Mon Jan 4 13:05:18 EST 2010

Yea, its 74 F today....putting on a sweater....brrrr

Mad Dawg Antenucci - Headed to the beach 
Team Pantera Racing 
"No One Gets Out Alive" 
www.teampanteraracing.com

________________________________
From: Larry - Ohio Time Corp <larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
To: Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>; boyd411 at gmail.com; kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc: jderyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 8:34:29 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] supercharger questions

Bill,

One of the favorite past times of us northerners it to listen of the great
Huston winter stories.

Larry (just ask Barry) - Cleveland

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Lewis
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 9:59 PM
To: boyd411 at gmail.com; kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc: jderyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] supercharger questions

Has anyone ever had a "stripped weight" daily driver type Pantera?  No A/C.
Cut out all bad weight.  No heavy roll cage.  Decent seats.  Holy Moly power
that you could drive to Vegas.
     ----What could it be pared down to weight-wise?
     -----  I'm like Boyd - winter time, too much free time to think about
bizzare, fun things. (Jump on that Larry).    ---Bill Lewis

> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 20:27:02 -0500
> From: boyd411 at gmail.com
> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> CC: jderyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] supercharger questions
> 
> Ken,
> I have spoken to Chris about his modular engine. I actually would prefer
the
> Ford modular engine . I think the 4 vales per cylinder and the DOHC seem
> much more appropriate for an Italian exotic. The only problem is the
engine
> costs around twice as much as an LS 3 getting more horsepower or an LS7
with
> the titanium  guts and no forced induction getting 505 HP and 28 mpg. You
> can buy an LS7 for $13k and change.
> Hugh
> 
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Boyd,
> >
> >     The ZF may be a bigger issue than the engine, and more expensive to
> > replace.  It may be good to not go above 800 HP?
> >
> >     I talked to Jim Bell (Kenne Belll Superchargers) a while back and he
> > said they get an easy 800 HP in one of the current  Mustangs (I think
the
> > GT500???)  and it's a very reliable street engine.  He thought it would
work
> > well in a Pantera.  Jim seems to have some pretty cool technology in his
> > twin screw superchargers and he seems to have a lot of real world
> > experience.
> >
> >    Chris Difani would have thoughts on this.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- On *Sun, 1/3/10, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] supercharger questions
> > To: jderyke at aol.com
> > Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> > Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 3:25 PM
> >
> > Thanks for your quick and informative reply. I should have mentioned I
am
> > not planning on supercharging my 37 year old Cleveland. I have been
> > thinking
> > about what I would  do ( or will do  when my Cleveland gives up the
fight.
> > I
> > have no indication that this is an impending issue but one never knows.
> > It's
> > like a stroke or a Heart attack, if you knew it was coming you would
> > probably have done something differently. I know supercharging my old
> > Cleveland in any form would make the possibility of a major failure a
> > certainty instead of a possibility. I know many will think it sacrilege
but
> > I have been researching  a supercharged LS3. Based on my calculations I
can
> > get an engine with much more horsepower and almost all the technological
> > advantageous of the LS7 or LS9
> > including the efi specifically designed for the application and the coil
on
> > cylinder ignition as well as the advantageous of the 6 bolt main ,
aluminum
> > block and keep the price around that of the LS7 with 200 or more
horsepower
> > then the LS7  . According to the horsepower estimates the LS3  376/480
with
> > 6 psi would generate  675hp at the flywheel and 540 Hp at the rear
wheels.
> > With 8 psi you would be looking at  756 hp and 605 hp at the rear
wheels.
> > With a Whipple twin screw supercharger and 3 core intercooler you can
> > obtain
> > 25 psi . If you are prepared to push the envelope and the idea of
> > rebuilding
> > your engine on a regular basis does not bother you 20 lbs psi would
produce
> > an estimated 1015 hp at the flywheel and 812HP at the rear wheels. You
can
> > buy an LS 376/480 for $6399 directly from a GM dealer (the retail price
is
> > $9138). The LS7 retails around $19,000 and you can buy one for around
> > $13,000 and the LS9 which is already supercharged , comes with a dry
sump
> > and drive by wire controls will run you around $19,000. In all of these
> > examples you still need to buy an ecu and harness and with the LS3 you
> > would
> > need to spend between $6000 and $7000 for a complete supercharger setup
> > with
> > intercooler. You would also need a new bell housing with any LS based
> > engine
> > and as you know and with any engine that provides a big increase in
> > horsepower you  will need to regear your ZF if you wanted to convert all
> > the
> > extra horse power into a higher top speed and a quicker 0-60 ( like 0-60
in
> > 3 secs in first gear). I like to think about the various re powering
> > possibilities during the winter months while I can't drive the Pantera.
> > When
> > the day comes that I have to take action I will be prepared to make a
> > decision having already done the research. I have been spending my time
and
> > money upgrading my brakes and suspension. I want to make sure I can stop
> > faster before I worry about  going faster!.
> > Boyd
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:29 PM,
<jderyke at aol.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jderyke@aol.co
m>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 1/3/10 9:57:57 AM,
boyd411 at gmail.com<http://us.mc308.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=boyd411@gmail
.com>writes:
> > >
> > > Do you think a Whipple twin screw supercharger with an intercooler is
a
> > > better choice or a Centrifugal supercharger ( like a Paxton or a
Vortech
> > )
> > >
> > > Depends on the engine and what you plan to do with it. First, I would
NOT
> > > supercharge any 351-C that's been overbored unless you have a
sonic-test
> > in
> > > hand that shows over 0.100" cylinder wall thickness everywhere AFTER
such
> > > boring. Thin walls flex with combustion pressures, blown engine
> > combustion
> > > pressures are significantly higher and cast iron doesn't flex very
long.
> > So
> > > I'd suggest a different engine. Second, actually driving most blowers
in
> > a
> > > Pantera is difficult due to not enough space for a proper width drive
> > belt,
> > > unless the engine is shifted backward. Shift the engine first before
> > buying
> > > any blower. Next, most blower kits are made for drag racing and don't
> > work
> > > well for long-haul use. Depends on your plans for the car. Budget
about
> > > $7000 for such a kit and have an extra block or two around;
blower-savvy
> > > engine bulders say your experience with superchargers is in direct
> > > proportion to the number of ruined blocks out back...All it takes is
one
> > > (1.0) backfire to take out most systems so a really good ignition and
> > fuel
> > > system is much more important than higher boost. There's a reason most
> > > factory systems only push about 5-8 psi. Finally, whipplechargers are
> > well
> > > known for pushing more air more efficiently than other designs,
without
> > the
> > > lag built into centrifugal blowers. A well-designed intercooler (few
> > really
> > > are, by the way) is worth a few more psi in boost at the cost of extra
> > wt,
> > > complication in mounting in a Pantera and $$$, plus more damage if the
> > > engine pops. You can't practically run an air-cooled intercooler with
> > most
> > > mid-engined configurations so a watercooled assembly makes more sense.
> > Good
> > > luck- J DeRyke (who owns two factory-blown vehicles- one intercooled.
Fun
> > > for mountain driving.)
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