[DeTomaso] supercharger questions

boyd casey boyd411 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 3 18:25:04 EST 2010


Thanks for your quick and informative reply. I should have mentioned I am
not planning on supercharging my 37 year old Cleveland. I have been thinking
about what I would  do ( or will do  when my Cleveland gives up the fight. I
have no indication that this is an impending issue but one never knows. It's
like a stroke or a Heart attack, if you knew it was coming you would
probably have done something differently. I know supercharging my old
Cleveland in any form would make the possibility of a major failure a
certainty instead of a possibility. I know many will think it sacrilege but
I have been researching  a supercharged LS3. Based on my calculations I can
get an engine with much more horsepower and almost all the technological
advantageous of the LS7 or LS9
including the efi specifically designed for the application and the coil on
cylinder ignition as well as the advantageous of the 6 bolt main , aluminum
block and keep the price around that of the LS7 with 200 or more horsepower
then the LS7  . According to the horsepower estimates the LS3  376/480 with
6 psi would generate  675hp at the flywheel and 540 Hp at the rear wheels.
With 8 psi you would be looking at  756 hp and 605 hp at the rear wheels.
With a Whipple twin screw supercharger and 3 core intercooler you can obtain
25 psi . If you are prepared to push the envelope and the idea of rebuilding
your engine on a regular basis does not bother you 20 lbs psi would produce
an estimated 1015 hp at the flywheel and 812HP at the rear wheels. You can
buy an LS 376/480 for $6399 directly from a GM dealer (the retail price is
$9138). The LS7 retails around $19,000 and you can buy one for around
$13,000 and the LS9 which is already supercharged , comes with a dry sump
and drive by wire controls will run you around $19,000. In all of these
examples you still need to buy an ecu and harness and with the LS3 you would
need to spend between $6000 and $7000 for a complete supercharger setup with
intercooler. You would also need a new bell housing with any LS based engine
and as you know and with any engine that provides a big increase in
horsepower you  will need to regear your ZF if you wanted to convert all the
extra horse power into a higher top speed and a quicker 0-60 ( like 0-60 in
3 secs in first gear). I like to think about the various re powering
possibilities during the winter months while I can't drive the Pantera. When
the day comes that I have to take action I will be prepared to make a
decision having already done the research. I have been spending my time and
money upgrading my brakes and suspension. I want to make sure I can stop
faster before I worry about  going faster!.
Boyd

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 3:29 PM, <jderyke at aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 1/3/10 9:57:57 AM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>
> Do you think a Whipple twin screw supercharger with an intercooler is a
> better choice or a Centrifugal supercharger ( like a Paxton or a Vortech )
>
> Depends on the engine and what you plan to do with it. First, I would NOT
> supercharge any 351-C that's been overbored unless you have a sonic-test in
> hand that shows over 0.100" cylinder wall thickness everywhere AFTER such
> boring. Thin walls flex with combustion pressures, blown engine combustion
> pressures are significantly higher and cast iron doesn't flex very long. So
> I'd suggest a different engine. Second, actually driving most blowers in a
> Pantera is difficult due to not enough space for a proper width drive belt,
> unless the engine is shifted backward. Shift the engine first before buying
> any blower. Next, most blower kits are made for drag racing and don't work
> well for long-haul use. Depends on your plans for the car. Budget about
> $7000 for such a kit and have an extra block or two around; blower-savvy
> engine bulders say your experience with superchargers is in direct
> proportion to the number of ruined blocks out back...All it takes is one
> (1.0) backfire to take out most systems so a really good ignition and fuel
> system is much more important than higher boost. There's a reason most
> factory systems only push about 5-8 psi. Finally, whipplechargers are well
> known for pushing more air more efficiently than other designs, without the
> lag built into centrifugal blowers. A well-designed intercooler (few really
> are, by the way) is worth a few more psi in boost at the cost of extra wt,
> complication in mounting in a Pantera and $$$, plus more damage if the
> engine pops. You can't practically run an air-cooled intercooler with most
> mid-engined configurations so a watercooled assembly makes more sense. Good
> luck- J DeRyke (who owns two factory-blown vehicles- one intercooled. Fun
> for mountain driving.)



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