[DeTomaso] Cleveland heads - Edelbrock 61629

[Garth Rodericks]

Cullen,

Congrats on your recent acquisition! Welcome to the wonderful world of Pantera ownership! 

As for the Edelbrock heads, I'm going to offer a bit of a COUNTER-POINT to the arguments against the Edelbrock heads...

First and foremost as Dan Jones' said, "it's the combination that makes power."

The group-think here and on the PI Board about aluminum heads for the 351C is collective agreement thatCHI's are deemed "THE
BEST!"  BUT, this seems to be
based purely on flow - they outflow all the others! But that doesn't address suitability for purpose, and flow alone doesn't necessarily make them better if you're not building a monster engine. If you're only building 400-450 horsepower, they may be no better than
Edelbrock, AFD, or TFS heads.The
CHI's will outflow Edelbrock and TFS, but are you building an engine with cam lift greater than 0.600" in order to use that flow capacity?

I liken it to plumbing a house - a 1" main water
line may be more than sufficient to provide all the water you could possibly use for your shower, dishes, laundry, and
garden. A 4" main water line could undoubtedly flow more than the 1" line, but you'd never notice the difference in the performance because your house doesn't have the capacity to use more than the 1" line supplies. But you would notice the added cost of adding a 4" line to your home. But if
you had a farm and had need for the flow provided by the 4" line, then it would make
sense. 
 
You also need to consider the cost. The law of diminishing returns applies to horsepower too. The TFS heads look promising, but when I was shopping for aluminum heads a year ago TFS didn't have a Cleveland head on the market yet. And the CHI 3V heads were going to cost OVER $1,000 MORE than the Edelbrock heads. The AFD's were pretty close in price to the CHI's, so they weren't even a contender since I could have CHI's for only a couple hundred more. But then again, my budget didn't allow for the CHI's.


I went with the Edelbrock
aluminum 2V heads. They're from DSC Motorsports in CA, and have had the ports cleaned-up and larger valves installed (2.11 int / 1.65
exh -- stock from Edelbrock are 2.05" int / 1.60" exh). 

And my decision was based on several considerations...
1. Cost - The Edelbrock heads were SUBSTANTIALLY LESS EXPENSIVE than the alternatives at the time. And, I got a smokin deal - I actually spent about the same as the quote to R&R my closed chamber 4V heads.

2. Performance needs - I'm not building a monster engine. I'm building my engine with street driveability as a primary goal. My focus is on a long flat torque curve with about 400 ft/lbs of torque. I don't care what the horsepower comes out at. My engine builder/machine shop and Steve Wilkinson (Wilkinson Pantera) both recommended the Edelbrocks for my engine, telling me the Edelbrocks are
perfectly good up to 450 horsepower, and that I'd be wasting my money buying
CHI's for the engine I was building.

Above all, be clear on the objectives of your engine build before you make any decisions on which parts are "best" for you. Then, seek the advise of Dan Jones and other trusted experts to determine which combination of parts will produce the results you're seeking. And DO NOT get caught up in all the horsepower chest-pounding and bragging that goes on in these forums and club meetings. I've met a number of people who became fixated on an impressive horsepower target and spent a whole lot of money building a monster engine, only to have the car they intended to drive on the street 90% of the time no longer enjoyable to drive on the street.

YMMV,
Garth


--- Original Message ---

Good morning,
 
My name is Cullen, I'm new to the list. A brief
introduction: I'm located in the central Oklahoma area and I've recently
acquired a major Pantera project, car 3925. It's rusty and about half
disassembled, so I have my work cut out for me indeed, but I'm optimistic and
it's not my first major venture so in time the car will live again. It will
definitely be aground-up project, and thank you all in advance for all of the
great information you share openly. I've been "lurking" on the list
for a few weeks now and already I benefit tremendously from the knowledge you
all have.  Plus I have already made
contact with several on the list directly so I feel I'm off to a great start
with the local community. Everyone I have met so far has been of tremendous
character.
 
This might be a good opportunity for my first contribution
or question. I was just reading an article that a friend sent me on an article
that came out in April of 2009 on Edelbrock Cleveland head. Has anyone had any experience
with them? They get a good review on the article.and with the right cam the
motor made almost 450 horse.
 
Here is a link to the article:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/mufp_0509_edelbrock_351_cleveland_cylinder_head/index.html
 
Thank you!
Cullen


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