[DeTomaso] Intakes.

Larry - Ohio Time Corp larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Tue Feb 23 11:43:55 EST 2010


Hi Dan,

Were the iron heads open or closed chambers?

If closed are the heads my Boss closed heads? Are you running the Gold Chevy
rockers?

Very good numbers on a simple setup.

Thanks,

Larry - Cleveland

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel C Jones
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:26 AM
To: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Intakes.

> When I re-assemble 6143 I'd like to put on a 351C Performer Air-Gap
intake;
> Edelbrock #7564. That is, unless there are negative experiences with
ported,
> iron 4V heads.

The Edelbrock RPM Air Gap 2V intake manifold did very well on 351C dyno
project
engine with unported iron 4V heads.  The Holley Strip Dominator intake
made more
peak HP than the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap but the Air Gap was close (within 5
HP)
and made much better torque for most of the RPM range.  For instance,
at 4000 RPM,
the RPM Air Gap made 44 ft-lbs more torque than the Strip Dominator.  See
dyno
data below.  The cam used in this test is pretty much tailor made for
the RPM Air
Gap.  On a larger displacement engine like a 408C stroker or a higher
RPM cam and
the Strip Dominator would likely be the better choice.  It will be
interesting to
see how the RPM Air Gap compares to the Blue Thunder 4V dual plane (in
both ported
and unported form) which we intend to dyno in the next month or so.  We
still
have a variety of 4V intakes scheduled for test, ranging from an
Offenhauser Dual
Port to more exotic stuff like Webers, Autolite In-Lines and a Bud
Moore Ram Box.

> If you're anticipating using ported 4V heads and you've not purchased the
Air Gap,
> then have you considered the Parker Funnelweb 4V intake with its port
stuffers?

We tested the Parker Funnelweb on the dyno 351C but it was tested without
the
port stuffers.  Kirk Evans generously loaned us a set of stuffers but the
owner of the Funnelweb needed the intake back before we could test them. In
any
event, compared to the Strip Dominator, the Funnelweb picked up around
10 ft-lbs
in the mid-range but was down about 6 HP at the peak.  An Edelbrock Torker
was
tried next which performed about as well as the Parker for HP and the Strip
Dominator for torque.  The Parker worked best with a 4 hole 1 inch
spacer, while
the Strip Dominator and Torker preferred the HVH spacer.  Note in the
data below,
the Torker and Parker were tested with long tube headers which worked
better than
the Pantera headers.  However my comparison above was based up
back-to-back testing.

Be aware the RPM Air Gap and Funnelweb intakes are both quite tall.

Dan Jones

Factory 4V Iron Intake
Holley 950HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Same as baseline except for running factory 4V iron square bore intake
manifold
and 4 hole 1 inch spacer.  The OEM intake required a spacer for throttle
clearance so was tested only with 1" spacers.  Not a really good pull but
engine had time to cool.  Going to try one more time but seems to be down
about 30HP from our baseline with the single plane Torker.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	287.6	373.9
4100	293.8	379.2
4200	290.1	363.2
4300	293.2	358.1
4400	299.9	357.8
4500	308.9	360.5
4600	319.7	365.0
4700	331.9	370.4
4800	342.4	374.1
4900	340.8	363.7
5000	344.4	361.8
5100	349.2	359.8
5200	352.3	356.0
5300	357.9	354.6
5400	368.7	357.8
5500	371.6	355.4
5600	366.7	344.1
5700	364.1	335.6
5800	367.3	332.2
5900	371.6	331.9


Factory Iron Test 2 - Same as 1st
Same as previous run.  Engine seems to be somewhat rougher and more
difficult
to load properly.  12.5 AFR.  Going to try an HVH spacer on next pull to see
if it smooths it out somewhat.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	298.0	388.1
4100	296.8	379.9
4200	293.5	367.3
4300	297.7	363.6
4400	303.9	362.8
4700	329.5	367.9
4800	339.7	371.4
4900	351.4	376.0
5000	359.4	378.1
5100	361.7	372.6
5200	364.6	368.1
5300	368.2	364.9
5400	366.6	356.7
5500	365.7	349.0
5600	363.2	340.8
5700	368.8	340.7
5800	348.6	316.1

Factory Iron with HVH Spacer
OEM square bore intake, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Much better with the semi open spacer under carburetor.  Most likely due to
the
amount of camshaft overlap and the interaction it has with the dual plane
type
intake.  It will be very interesting to see if this trend continues with the
other larger dual planes.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	292.8	380.7
4100	299.3	384.0
4200	302.6	378.5
4300	311.4	380.3
4400	319.3	381.0
4500	326.4	381.2
4600	334.6	382.3
4700	342.4	382.7
4800	352.2	384.7
4900	359.0	385.1
5000	362.7	381.2
5100	368.0	378.7
5200	373.6	377.4
5300	378.4	374.7
5400	380.4	370.2
5500	380.8	363.6
5600	383.1	358.9
5700	380.8	351.5
5800	374.7	339.5
5900	376.2	334.7
6000	381.3	333.8
6100	373.2	321.2


Performer with 4 Hole 1 Inch Spacer
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Note:  Intake is actually the earlier F-351 4V version but appears identical
to
the current Performer.  The Perfomrer required a spacer for throttle
clearance
so was tested only with 1" spacers.  Baseline for Edelbrock Performer intake
with 4 hole 1 inch spacer which was needed to allow clearance for fuel log.
Good solid pull and for whatever reason the engine didn't seem to mind the 1
inch 4 hole on this dual plane.  Going to try the HVH spacer next.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4100	300.0	384.1
4200	303.2	379.6
4300	312.9	382.0
4400	319.7	381.8
4500	324.6	379.2
4600	331.5	378.5
4700	341.3	380.9
4800	350.0	383.5
4900	354.6	380.0
5000	358.2	375.9
5100	362.0	373.0
5200	367.8	371.2
5300	369.6	366.9
5400	372.6	362.5
5500	377.5	360.3
5600	381.3	357.1
5700	381.4	352.1
5800	374.6	339.3
5900	371.9	330.6
6000	363.0	317.9
6100	370.5	318.4


Performer with HVH Spacer
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
HVH was also better on the Edelbrock Performer but not as drastic as with
the
factory iron piece.  Performer is better than factory intake or so it seems
on this engine.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4100	308.1	391.7
4200	310.7	390.1
4300	322.5	394.8
4400	324.6	387.8
4500	330.6	386.1
4600	339.2	387.3
4700	349.3	390.2
4800	361.1	394.7
4900	371.3	397.5
5000	371.1	390.1
5100	375.3	386.4
5200	378.2	382.4
5300	377.7	374.5
5400	380.6	370.1
5500	385.1	367.5
5600	388.3	363.8
5700	390.4	359.5
5800	390.1	353.3
5900	391.1	348.2
6000	382.4	334.8
6100	384.2	331.1


Performer RPM Air Gap 2V
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Baseline for Performer RPM airgap intake.  Like many of the intakes designed
for 2V heads, the RPM Air Gap will fit either 2V or 4V heads.  Running with
no spacer.  Going to try the 4 hole 1 inch and HVH spacers next.  Good solid
pull with good numbers.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	312.4	405.7
4100	311.9	401.8
4200	320.7	399.9
4300	329.1	402.7
4400	335.8	400.9
4500	344.8	402.2
4600	350.7	400.7
4700	355.8	397.6
4800	362.7	396.7
4900	370.0	396.6
5000	376.2	395.1
5100	381.8	393.1
5200	386.7	390.4
5300	390.3	387.2
5400	392.9	382.1
5500	398.1	380.0
5600	396.7	372.1
5700	394.6	363.6
5800	392.6	355.6
5900	393.2	350.1
6000	396.6	346.9
6100	394.3	339.4


Performer RPM Air Gap with HVH
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
HVH spacer seems to run about in the middle of the bare intake or 4 hole 1
inch.  Good all around performance making over 380HP and torque.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4100	310.1	400.8
4200	314.8	394.1
4300	324.0	395.7
4400	337.1	401.9
4500	349.7	407.9
4600	354.2	404.6
4700	360.2	402.3
4800	367.3	401.8
4900	373.6	400.4
5000	377.2	396.5
5100	381.3	392.6
5200	388.5	392.1
5300	392.9	389.9
5400	395.3	384.4
5500	400.1	381.5
5600	399.1	375.0
5700	390.8	360.2
5800	388.7	351.9
5900	386.0	343.7
6000	384.1	336.2
6100	386.9	332.9


Performer RPM Air Gap with 4 hole 1 Inch
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Good pull and engine picked up about 5 horsepower and about 10lbs/ft with 4
hole.  A good swap and about the best all around combo for these heads etc.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	312.9	409.3
4100	316.6	406.5
4200	324.3	404.7
4300	332.7	407.4
4400	346.3	410.7
4500	349.2	408.1
4600	354.1	404.4
4700	362.8	405.1
4800	371.3	406.4
4900	375.1	402.2
5000	380.3	399.3
5100	387.9	399.1
5200	394.1	398.1
5300	395.3	391.9
5400	398.6	387.7
5500	401.6	383.4
5600	403.3	378.3
5700	400.8	369.4
5800	401.7	363.7
5900	401.1	357.2
6000	403.1	352.5


Holley Strip Dominator with HVH Run 10
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
For the 10th pull of the day we switched back to the Holley Strip Dominator
and HVH spacer which was the best combination tested on the unported iron
heads previously.  We found it to be virtually identical to our previous
numbers with the Pantera headers.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	278.7	362.9
4100	291.9	370.3
4200	294.8	369.3
4300	301.1	368.1
4400	308.9	369.0
4500	319.2	372.6
4600	331.7	378.5
4700	345.3	385.5
4800	356.9	390.1
4900	363.5	389.9
5000	372.8	390.4
5100	378.2	389.6
5200	382.4	386.5
5300	389.9	386.4
5400	396.7	385.9
5500	403.1	384.9
5600	407.6	382.3
5700	408.0	375.7
5800	405.9	367.4
5900	398.5	355.2
6000	395.4	346.2
6100	399.0	343.4
6200	404.4	343.6



Parker Funnelweb without spacer
Same as second nights baseline (Hooker 1 3/4" long tube headers with
Magnaflow mufflers) except for switching to Parker Funnel Web intake.
No spacer.  Good torque numbers but a litttle off on HP.  Going to mess
with a few spacers.  HVH may not work due to 4 leaf clover opening on
Parker intake.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4200	319.1	395.7
4300	321.9	394.5
4400	329.3	393.2
4500	339.2	395.7
4600	352.0	401.3
4700	360.5	403.1
4800	367.3	401.7
4900	374.4	401.4
5000	382.8	401.8
5100	388.9	400.8
5200	392.1	396.2
5300	396.2	392.5
5400	401.3	390.1
5500	400.9	383.3
5600	398.1	373.3
5700	396.8	365.2
5800	392.6	355.8
5900	389.9	346.9
6000	388.5	340.2
6100	389.2	335.1
6200	399.2	338.7


Parker Funnelweb with 4 hole 1" spacer
Same as previous pull except for adding a 4 hole 1 inch spacer.  Engine
liked
this change picking up both torque and horsepower numbers by about 10.
Stilll
off a few horsepower from the baseline, about 5.  393 now vs 398 but up some
on
the torque 388 vs 380.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4200	318.8	397.8
4300	318.9	389.8
4400	329.3	393.0
4500	339.8	396.6
4600	349.3	398.9
4700	359.7	401.8
4800	372.6	407.1
4900	380.0	407.6
5000	383.4	402.9
5100	388.9	400.5
5200	401.2	404.4
5300	403.8	400.8
5400	406.1	394.8
5500	412.3	393.4
5600	410.4	385.1
5700	403.9	372.5
5800	393.9	356.6
5900	391.1	348.2
6000	393.5	344.5
6100	397.5	342.1
6200	404.6	343.7


Parker Funnelweb with HVH 1" spacer
Nearly the same as with the 4 hole 1 inch 392 horsepower and 389 on the
torque.
Good solid pull but 4 hole 1 inch is best on this manifold.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4200	320.1	398.1
4300	325.6	398.1
4400	335.2	400.4
4500	346.0	403.8
4600	356.4	406.9
4700	365.5	408.3
4800	373.2	408.3
4900	379.3	406.6
5000	387.0	406.1
5100	391.5	403.8
5200	398.8	402.8
5300	405.2	401.4
5400	410.0	398.6
5500	410.4	392.6
5600	406.4	381.0
5700	404.8	372.6
5800	400.2	362.5
5900	396.0	352.6
6000	395.2	346.0
6100	400.2	345.3


An Edelbrock Torker was tried next which performed about as well as the
Parker for HP and the Strip Dominator for torque.

TORKER W 1 inch 4 hole
Torquer intake manifold with 4 hole 1 inch spacer.  Carburetor would not fit
on this intake without spacer so this is the baseline for this piece.  About
the same on torque as anything we've tried but a little worse on power than
baseline with Strip Dominator and HVH spacer.  Going to try HVH on Torquer
next.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4000	312.9	409.3
4100	316.6	406.5
4200	324.3	404.7
4300	332.7	407.4
4400	346.3	410.7
4500	349.2	408.1
4600	354.1	404.4
4700	362.8	405.1
4800	371.3	406.4
4900	375.1	402.2
5000	380.3	399.3
5100	387.9	399.1
5200	394.1	398.1
5300	395.3	391.9
5400	398.6	387.7
5500	401.6	383.4
5600	403.3	378.3
5700	400.8	369.4
5800	401.7	363.7
5900	401.1	357.2
6000	403.1	352.5


Torquer with HVH
Torquer intake with HVH spacer.  Runs nearly identical to with the 4
hole 1 inch.

RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
4200	318.8	397.5
4300	325.0	397.7
4400	331.6	395.9
4500	339.4	396.1
4600	349.9	399.2
4700	360.6	402.9
4800	368.0	402.8
4900	372.4	399.5
5000	378.0	397.0
5100	388.6	399.7
5200	397.1	401.1
5300	401.3	398.2
5400	404.9	393.8
5500	409.9	390.9
5600	412.1	386.7
5700	407.9	375.8
5800	401.4	363.8
5900	398.9	355.1
6000	401.3	351.2
6100	407.0	350.2

The Parker worked best with a 4 hole 1 inch spacer, while the Strip
Dominator
and Torker both preferred the HVH.
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