[DeTomaso] Intakes.
Larry - Ohio Time Corp
larry at ohiotimecorp.com
Tue Feb 23 11:43:55 EST 2010
Hi Dan,
Were the iron heads open or closed chambers?
If closed are the heads my Boss closed heads? Are you running the Gold Chevy
rockers?
Very good numbers on a simple setup.
Thanks,
Larry - Cleveland
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel C Jones
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:26 AM
To: DeTomaso Forum
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Intakes.
> When I re-assemble 6143 I'd like to put on a 351C Performer Air-Gap
intake;
> Edelbrock #7564. That is, unless there are negative experiences with
ported,
> iron 4V heads.
The Edelbrock RPM Air Gap 2V intake manifold did very well on 351C dyno
project
engine with unported iron 4V heads. The Holley Strip Dominator intake
made more
peak HP than the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap but the Air Gap was close (within 5
HP)
and made much better torque for most of the RPM range. For instance,
at 4000 RPM,
the RPM Air Gap made 44 ft-lbs more torque than the Strip Dominator. See
dyno
data below. The cam used in this test is pretty much tailor made for
the RPM Air
Gap. On a larger displacement engine like a 408C stroker or a higher
RPM cam and
the Strip Dominator would likely be the better choice. It will be
interesting to
see how the RPM Air Gap compares to the Blue Thunder 4V dual plane (in
both ported
and unported form) which we intend to dyno in the next month or so. We
still
have a variety of 4V intakes scheduled for test, ranging from an
Offenhauser Dual
Port to more exotic stuff like Webers, Autolite In-Lines and a Bud
Moore Ram Box.
> If you're anticipating using ported 4V heads and you've not purchased the
Air Gap,
> then have you considered the Parker Funnelweb 4V intake with its port
stuffers?
We tested the Parker Funnelweb on the dyno 351C but it was tested without
the
port stuffers. Kirk Evans generously loaned us a set of stuffers but the
owner of the Funnelweb needed the intake back before we could test them. In
any
event, compared to the Strip Dominator, the Funnelweb picked up around
10 ft-lbs
in the mid-range but was down about 6 HP at the peak. An Edelbrock Torker
was
tried next which performed about as well as the Parker for HP and the Strip
Dominator for torque. The Parker worked best with a 4 hole 1 inch
spacer, while
the Strip Dominator and Torker preferred the HVH spacer. Note in the
data below,
the Torker and Parker were tested with long tube headers which worked
better than
the Pantera headers. However my comparison above was based up
back-to-back testing.
Be aware the RPM Air Gap and Funnelweb intakes are both quite tall.
Dan Jones
Factory 4V Iron Intake
Holley 950HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Same as baseline except for running factory 4V iron square bore intake
manifold
and 4 hole 1 inch spacer. The OEM intake required a spacer for throttle
clearance so was tested only with 1" spacers. Not a really good pull but
engine had time to cool. Going to try one more time but seems to be down
about 30HP from our baseline with the single plane Torker.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 287.6 373.9
4100 293.8 379.2
4200 290.1 363.2
4300 293.2 358.1
4400 299.9 357.8
4500 308.9 360.5
4600 319.7 365.0
4700 331.9 370.4
4800 342.4 374.1
4900 340.8 363.7
5000 344.4 361.8
5100 349.2 359.8
5200 352.3 356.0
5300 357.9 354.6
5400 368.7 357.8
5500 371.6 355.4
5600 366.7 344.1
5700 364.1 335.6
5800 367.3 332.2
5900 371.6 331.9
Factory Iron Test 2 - Same as 1st
Same as previous run. Engine seems to be somewhat rougher and more
difficult
to load properly. 12.5 AFR. Going to try an HVH spacer on next pull to see
if it smooths it out somewhat.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 298.0 388.1
4100 296.8 379.9
4200 293.5 367.3
4300 297.7 363.6
4400 303.9 362.8
4700 329.5 367.9
4800 339.7 371.4
4900 351.4 376.0
5000 359.4 378.1
5100 361.7 372.6
5200 364.6 368.1
5300 368.2 364.9
5400 366.6 356.7
5500 365.7 349.0
5600 363.2 340.8
5700 368.8 340.7
5800 348.6 316.1
Factory Iron with HVH Spacer
OEM square bore intake, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Much better with the semi open spacer under carburetor. Most likely due to
the
amount of camshaft overlap and the interaction it has with the dual plane
type
intake. It will be very interesting to see if this trend continues with the
other larger dual planes.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 292.8 380.7
4100 299.3 384.0
4200 302.6 378.5
4300 311.4 380.3
4400 319.3 381.0
4500 326.4 381.2
4600 334.6 382.3
4700 342.4 382.7
4800 352.2 384.7
4900 359.0 385.1
5000 362.7 381.2
5100 368.0 378.7
5200 373.6 377.4
5300 378.4 374.7
5400 380.4 370.2
5500 380.8 363.6
5600 383.1 358.9
5700 380.8 351.5
5800 374.7 339.5
5900 376.2 334.7
6000 381.3 333.8
6100 373.2 321.2
Performer with 4 Hole 1 Inch Spacer
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Note: Intake is actually the earlier F-351 4V version but appears identical
to
the current Performer. The Perfomrer required a spacer for throttle
clearance
so was tested only with 1" spacers. Baseline for Edelbrock Performer intake
with 4 hole 1 inch spacer which was needed to allow clearance for fuel log.
Good solid pull and for whatever reason the engine didn't seem to mind the 1
inch 4 hole on this dual plane. Going to try the HVH spacer next.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4100 300.0 384.1
4200 303.2 379.6
4300 312.9 382.0
4400 319.7 381.8
4500 324.6 379.2
4600 331.5 378.5
4700 341.3 380.9
4800 350.0 383.5
4900 354.6 380.0
5000 358.2 375.9
5100 362.0 373.0
5200 367.8 371.2
5300 369.6 366.9
5400 372.6 362.5
5500 377.5 360.3
5600 381.3 357.1
5700 381.4 352.1
5800 374.6 339.3
5900 371.9 330.6
6000 363.0 317.9
6100 370.5 318.4
Performer with HVH Spacer
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
HVH was also better on the Edelbrock Performer but not as drastic as with
the
factory iron piece. Performer is better than factory intake or so it seems
on this engine.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4100 308.1 391.7
4200 310.7 390.1
4300 322.5 394.8
4400 324.6 387.8
4500 330.6 386.1
4600 339.2 387.3
4700 349.3 390.2
4800 361.1 394.7
4900 371.3 397.5
5000 371.1 390.1
5100 375.3 386.4
5200 378.2 382.4
5300 377.7 374.5
5400 380.6 370.1
5500 385.1 367.5
5600 388.3 363.8
5700 390.4 359.5
5800 390.1 353.3
5900 391.1 348.2
6000 382.4 334.8
6100 384.2 331.1
Performer RPM Air Gap 2V
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Baseline for Performer RPM airgap intake. Like many of the intakes designed
for 2V heads, the RPM Air Gap will fit either 2V or 4V heads. Running with
no spacer. Going to try the 4 hole 1 inch and HVH spacers next. Good solid
pull with good numbers.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 312.4 405.7
4100 311.9 401.8
4200 320.7 399.9
4300 329.1 402.7
4400 335.8 400.9
4500 344.8 402.2
4600 350.7 400.7
4700 355.8 397.6
4800 362.7 396.7
4900 370.0 396.6
5000 376.2 395.1
5100 381.8 393.1
5200 386.7 390.4
5300 390.3 387.2
5400 392.9 382.1
5500 398.1 380.0
5600 396.7 372.1
5700 394.6 363.6
5800 392.6 355.6
5900 393.2 350.1
6000 396.6 346.9
6100 394.3 339.4
Performer RPM Air Gap with HVH
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
HVH spacer seems to run about in the middle of the bare intake or 4 hole 1
inch. Good all around performance making over 380HP and torque.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4100 310.1 400.8
4200 314.8 394.1
4300 324.0 395.7
4400 337.1 401.9
4500 349.7 407.9
4600 354.2 404.6
4700 360.2 402.3
4800 367.3 401.8
4900 373.6 400.4
5000 377.2 396.5
5100 381.3 392.6
5200 388.5 392.1
5300 392.9 389.9
5400 395.3 384.4
5500 400.1 381.5
5600 399.1 375.0
5700 390.8 360.2
5800 388.7 351.9
5900 386.0 343.7
6000 384.1 336.2
6100 386.9 332.9
Performer RPM Air Gap with 4 hole 1 Inch
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
Good pull and engine picked up about 5 horsepower and about 10lbs/ft with 4
hole. A good swap and about the best all around combo for these heads etc.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 312.9 409.3
4100 316.6 406.5
4200 324.3 404.7
4300 332.7 407.4
4400 346.3 410.7
4500 349.2 408.1
4600 354.1 404.4
4700 362.8 405.1
4800 371.3 406.4
4900 375.1 402.2
5000 380.3 399.3
5100 387.9 399.1
5200 394.1 398.1
5300 395.3 391.9
5400 398.6 387.7
5500 401.6 383.4
5600 403.3 378.3
5700 400.8 369.4
5800 401.7 363.7
5900 401.1 357.2
6000 403.1 352.5
Holley Strip Dominator with HVH Run 10
950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
For the 10th pull of the day we switched back to the Holley Strip Dominator
and HVH spacer which was the best combination tested on the unported iron
heads previously. We found it to be virtually identical to our previous
numbers with the Pantera headers.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 278.7 362.9
4100 291.9 370.3
4200 294.8 369.3
4300 301.1 368.1
4400 308.9 369.0
4500 319.2 372.6
4600 331.7 378.5
4700 345.3 385.5
4800 356.9 390.1
4900 363.5 389.9
5000 372.8 390.4
5100 378.2 389.6
5200 382.4 386.5
5300 389.9 386.4
5400 396.7 385.9
5500 403.1 384.9
5600 407.6 382.3
5700 408.0 375.7
5800 405.9 367.4
5900 398.5 355.2
6000 395.4 346.2
6100 399.0 343.4
6200 404.4 343.6
Parker Funnelweb without spacer
Same as second nights baseline (Hooker 1 3/4" long tube headers with
Magnaflow mufflers) except for switching to Parker Funnel Web intake.
No spacer. Good torque numbers but a litttle off on HP. Going to mess
with a few spacers. HVH may not work due to 4 leaf clover opening on
Parker intake.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4200 319.1 395.7
4300 321.9 394.5
4400 329.3 393.2
4500 339.2 395.7
4600 352.0 401.3
4700 360.5 403.1
4800 367.3 401.7
4900 374.4 401.4
5000 382.8 401.8
5100 388.9 400.8
5200 392.1 396.2
5300 396.2 392.5
5400 401.3 390.1
5500 400.9 383.3
5600 398.1 373.3
5700 396.8 365.2
5800 392.6 355.8
5900 389.9 346.9
6000 388.5 340.2
6100 389.2 335.1
6200 399.2 338.7
Parker Funnelweb with 4 hole 1" spacer
Same as previous pull except for adding a 4 hole 1 inch spacer. Engine
liked
this change picking up both torque and horsepower numbers by about 10.
Stilll
off a few horsepower from the baseline, about 5. 393 now vs 398 but up some
on
the torque 388 vs 380.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4200 318.8 397.8
4300 318.9 389.8
4400 329.3 393.0
4500 339.8 396.6
4600 349.3 398.9
4700 359.7 401.8
4800 372.6 407.1
4900 380.0 407.6
5000 383.4 402.9
5100 388.9 400.5
5200 401.2 404.4
5300 403.8 400.8
5400 406.1 394.8
5500 412.3 393.4
5600 410.4 385.1
5700 403.9 372.5
5800 393.9 356.6
5900 391.1 348.2
6000 393.5 344.5
6100 397.5 342.1
6200 404.6 343.7
Parker Funnelweb with HVH 1" spacer
Nearly the same as with the 4 hole 1 inch 392 horsepower and 389 on the
torque.
Good solid pull but 4 hole 1 inch is best on this manifold.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4200 320.1 398.1
4300 325.6 398.1
4400 335.2 400.4
4500 346.0 403.8
4600 356.4 406.9
4700 365.5 408.3
4800 373.2 408.3
4900 379.3 406.6
5000 387.0 406.1
5100 391.5 403.8
5200 398.8 402.8
5300 405.2 401.4
5400 410.0 398.6
5500 410.4 392.6
5600 406.4 381.0
5700 404.8 372.6
5800 400.2 362.5
5900 396.0 352.6
6000 395.2 346.0
6100 400.2 345.3
An Edelbrock Torker was tried next which performed about as well as the
Parker for HP and the Strip Dominator for torque.
TORKER W 1 inch 4 hole
Torquer intake manifold with 4 hole 1 inch spacer. Carburetor would not fit
on this intake without spacer so this is the baseline for this piece. About
the same on torque as anything we've tried but a little worse on power than
baseline with Strip Dominator and HVH spacer. Going to try HVH on Torquer
next.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4000 312.9 409.3
4100 316.6 406.5
4200 324.3 404.7
4300 332.7 407.4
4400 346.3 410.7
4500 349.2 408.1
4600 354.1 404.4
4700 362.8 405.1
4800 371.3 406.4
4900 375.1 402.2
5000 380.3 399.3
5100 387.9 399.1
5200 394.1 398.1
5300 395.3 391.9
5400 398.6 387.7
5500 401.6 383.4
5600 403.3 378.3
5700 400.8 369.4
5800 401.7 363.7
5900 401.1 357.2
6000 403.1 352.5
Torquer with HVH
Torquer intake with HVH spacer. Runs nearly identical to with the 4
hole 1 inch.
RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
4200 318.8 397.5
4300 325.0 397.7
4400 331.6 395.9
4500 339.4 396.1
4600 349.9 399.2
4700 360.6 402.9
4800 368.0 402.8
4900 372.4 399.5
5000 378.0 397.0
5100 388.6 399.7
5200 397.1 401.1
5300 401.3 398.2
5400 404.9 393.8
5500 409.9 390.9
5600 412.1 386.7
5700 407.9 375.8
5800 401.4 363.8
5900 398.9 355.1
6000 401.3 351.2
6100 407.0 350.2
The Parker worked best with a 4 hole 1 inch spacer, while the Strip
Dominator
and Torker both preferred the HVH.
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