[DeTomaso] Headlights turn on but buckets don't open

Wed Feb 17 05:34:44 EST 2010

Before anything else I'd also move the upper position limit switch lever
(i.e. the one not activated when the headlights are down) a couple of times
by hand.

Tomas

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Henrik Svensson
Sent: den 17 februari 2010 11:10
To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Headlights turn on but buckets don't open

Hi Peter

I had the same problem a few months ago. I my case I found that a friendy
passanger had kicked off one of the cables to the headlight motor relay. On
my 71 it's located above the passengers feets.

http://www.panteraplace.com/Electrical/relays%20late.jpg

An easy fix so it might be worth checking.

Henrik
#1477

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] För
MikeLDrew at aol.com
Skickat: den 17 februari 2010 05:31
Till: peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net; detomaso at realbig.com
Ämne: Re: [DeTomaso] Headlights turn on but buckets don't open

In a message dated 2/16/10 20 18 56, peter-kovacs at sbcglobal.net writes:

> What is the sequence to chase down the problem? 73
>

Realize that the headlight switch controls two totally separate systems;
one is an illumination system (turns lights on and off) and the other is an
erection system (there you go Larry, go ahead and knock that one out of the
park) which raises and lowers the headlight buckets.   Their relationship is
only coincidental (in fact on the very early, pre-US cars, those two
functions were controlled separately by two identical headlight switches,
with one
of them located to the left of the steering wheel on the dash, next to the
windshield wiper rotary switch).

Your illumination function is working fine.   You therefore need to
concentrate on either the wiring going to/from the motor, or the motor
itself (or
more accurately, the gear).

The headlight system uses the same POS plastic gear as the windows.   If
you haven't already substituted a brass gear in there, then there's a decent
possibility that the gear is broken.   The next possibility is
electrical--the limit switches can fail.   It's possible, for example, that
the
'headlights up' limit switch, which shuts off power to the headlight motor
when the
lights come all the way up, has failed, and thinks that the lights are up
already, and is therefore suspending electrical power to the motor.

If I was going to troubleshoot the system, since I'm an electrical idiot,
what I would do is to manually crank the headlights halfway up.   The lights
turn on and off with the ignition key turned off, but the motor will ONLY
run when the key is turned on.   So, I would turn the manual knob (you have
to
push in, that is, push towards the outside of the car, to get the gears to
engage and then you turn the knob to raise the lights, VERY slowly) until
the lights were halfway up.   Since the lights are presumably down and won't
go up, to experiment, I would then get in the car, and with the key turned
off still, I'd turn the headlight switch on.   THEN turn the key.   The
system
should be powered now and the lights should go up.

What happens?   Any sound of the motor turning?   Or a deafening silence?

Assuming the buckets didn't move, I would then turn the headlight switch
OFF.   Do the headlights lower normally?   If so, then you've verified that
the motor is getting power, the gear isn't broken, and the headlight buckets
operate properly in one direction at least.

Do all that stuff and report back to us.   Based on your findings, people
with more electrical smarts than me (which is to say, just about everyone)
can then discuss methods to pinpoint the exact source of your problem,
assuming it's electrical.

If your problem is purely mechanical, then all you have to do is pull the
headlight motor and gearbox out of the car, and change the gear.   This is a
non-trivial exercise with the radiator in the stock location; if you have a
lay-down radiator, it's a piece of cake.   If your radiator is in the
standard position, you might gain some relief by removing the upper radiator
mount
bolts, and tilting the radiator forward slightly (which will probably
require moving the radiator fans first).

I have successfully removed the headlight motor and gearbox without moving
the radiator, but it was a pretty significant challenge.   The motor/gearbox
are bolted to a stamped steel plate, which is secured to the inside of the
fender with three M5 (10mm head) bolts.   With those bolts removed, the
plate/motor/gearbox are then withdrawn down and back, into the driver's side
wheelwell (so you'll have to remove the left front wheel).

Let us know what you find out!

Mike
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