[DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...Revisited

[Charles McCall]

Dick - thanks for posting those photos. I found them particularly
interesting. The "customer Service" sign at the DeTomaso factory was still
hanging on the wall the last time I was there, but since they have taken
down the external signage and logos, I expect that it has been removed. 

I find period DeTomaso photos fascinating.... Thanks for sharing!

Charles McCall
1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
"Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe"
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323

-----Mensaje original-----
De: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] En
nombre de Dick Koch
Enviado el: viernes, 17 de diciembre de 2010 23:03
Para: detomaso at realbig.com
Asunto: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...Revisited

Based on the note I got from Charles McCall asking me for information on 
Guy Anderson, the fellow selling the so called "ebay scam Pantera" 
(eventually sold to a fellow in Florida for $18,000) and the response I 
sent toCharles (see attached conversation), I decided to take some time 
to pull out some old photos Guy had given me and post them, along with 
some comments, to my facebook page.

Some of the Pantera history buffs in the crowd may find them 
interesting.  The direct link to the page is:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=35097&id=100000900252005&l=a09a5fa682

By the way Bill Trigaux, some of you have referenced and refer to as 
Guy, lives in South Carolina in a home development for plane owners, a 
development which incorporates their own airfield.  His favorite pass 
time now is taking his plane out for a little tour around the 
neighborhood, i.e. South Carolina.

I met Tigaux several years ago at the Euro Fest held at the BMW Plant in 
the Greenville, SC area.  While he has most of the parts to build a 
Pantera, he was missing an original shift plate.  Since I had replaced 
mine, I gave him my original.

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Dick Koch - Atlanta

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Charles, Guy, along with his partner Barry, was one of a the major 
importers of legal, not gray market, Panteras on the east coast in the 
80's and supplied cars to George Stauffer.  I believe Stauffer is still 
alive and kicking,  Find out where he is now and give him a call.  (his 
business is still active - http://staufferclassics.com/)

 From a historical perspective, Guy, through his dealings with DeTomaso 
and folks in Europe, has more detailed information on the workings of 
Detomaso and the Pantera than all but a few folks, as well as many other 
marques.  Also, Guy dealt in and traded cars all over the world, not 
just the US.

Probably one of the reasons you haven't heard much about Guy and his 
activities in the late 70's and the 80's is he is an east coast fellow, 
no slight by me meant to the left coast crew.

I talked to Guy today and mentioned the "discussion" going on in the 
forum.  In his own inimitable way, he said it is really comical.

There is a whole chapter on the activities related to the importation 
and sale of Panteras in the 80's that have not been "published".  Guy 
was in the middle of most of it.  Come to think of it, some folks may 
not want to hear what he has to say.  It might "expose" them.

Anyway, Guy said he would try to make it to ADD this weekend with one of 
his cars and to share some stories about the "roaring" 80s.

Take care.

Dick


On 12/7/2010 14:50, Charles McCall wrote:
> Hey Dick
>
> I'm not interested in beating any horse that is long into decomposition,
but
> I am curious about your friend Guy, for historical reasons.
>
> If I remember correctly, you are the original owner of your Pantera, which
> means that you have been into the scene for waaaay longer than I have
been.
> But I've never heard of the guy. If I think of importing Panteras in the
> 80's, the first name that comes to mind is Kirk Evans, of course, and
others
> like George Stauffer, etc, who brought in a large number of grey market
> cars.
>
> I've read all the PI's and POCA's for the past 15 years, as well as the
> majority of the articles and books published but haven't heard of this
guy.
> (lame pun intended) What do you think? Is there a missing story out there
> that might be interesting to investigate, if Guy is willing? Do you think
he
> exaggerates his role in importing Panteras?
>
> (btw - this wouldn't be Guy from Belgium, would it? If so, then we have
most
> definitely heard of him!!)
>
> Charles McCall
> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
> "Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe"
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] En
> nombre de Dick Koch
> Enviado el: martes, 07 de diciembre de 2010 20:34
> Para: John Bentley
> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> Asunto: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...
>
> John, one thing is for sure, Guy couldn't have asked for better
> "publicity" for his listing than this thread has given him.
>
> I bet he has gotten quite a few calls from folks that are really
> interested in the car, not just tire kickers that seem to be bloviating
> on the forum, now that they know he is for real.  If he makes it to
> Atlanta Donut Derelicts this Saturday, I'll ask him what kind of
> response he got.
>
> I don't know what Torbjorn is looking for in a car, but parting out the
> car (heaven forbid) would probably net more than Guy is asking for it.
>
> Well, time for me to go back and hone my artillery skills.  I hope
> Dailey isn't monitoring this thread.  If he is, I won't hear the last of
> him ragging me to quit wasting my time on such trivia and get to work
> fixing my car.
>
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
>
> On 12/7/2010 13:57, John Bentley wrote:
>> Torbjorn,
>>
>> Welcome to the forum.  Don't worry, the wtf was just my disgust of all
the
> negative crap about this guy coming from people that don't know anything
> first-hand.  Dick stepped up and said the the guy was legit and people are
> still coming out of the woodwork to bash the man.
>> Since Mikey started this tirade, he will clean it up.  I'm sure Mike will
> contact the guy and we'll all get to the bottom of this, so stay tuned.
If
> the guy is a straight-up guy, Mikey will say he jumped the gun and the guy
> is actually good.  If the guy is trying to pull a fast one, Mikey will
jump
> up and tell us he was right! :)
>> Either way, I think waiting for factual data is the civil thing to do
> before bashing someone on a public forum.  Or, maybe that's just me......
>> JB
>>
>> btw, your English is great and just like Guy, it doesn't matter.  We all
> know exactly what you write and is easy to understand.  Again, welcome and
> don't worry about your writing.
>>
>> --- On Tue, 12/7/10, Torbjørn Harlem<torbjorn.harlem at elverhoy.no>
wrote:
>>
>> From: Torbjørn Harlem<torbjorn.harlem at elverhoy.no>
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...
>> To: "John Bentley"<gndplne at yahoo.com>,detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 5:22 AM
>>
>> Hi. John
>>    Why do you wtf? me.?
>>
>> Are the questions I send to the seller an abuse or something?
>> I asked him ( for me) a totally normal question about his project.
>> And my mail was not at all anonymous.
>>
>>
>>
>> No rust issue he stated. Is it brown paint at the doors? Is it not normal
> to ask for more or better pics when you interested in a project. The car
is
> stated to be in bare metal. Is it?
>> About the price: isn't that what Ebay is all about the seller and buyers
> market. Both parts trying to get the best out of the deal. And I not
stated
> that it was my final offer!
>> Transaxle question wasn't even asked. Because No one can tell the status
> of it, with just looking on it from the outside.
>> So I don't understand your sarcasm .It's my first time ever on this forum
> that it happened. Perhaps I`m too stupid or dumb too understand a foreign
> add , but I have mannish  too buy some items on Ebay before .Even a car in
> fact.
>> Howe can I trust a guy you say it's ok?
>>
>>
>> I just know a couple names in the Usa that I'll trust 100% regarding
money
> issues. Do you think his add at Ebay look like a pro car dealers? , since
he
> was dealing all the Panteras ( GT5, GT4 and Gr 3) imported to the Usa true
> the `80`s. I would expect a more informative add.
>>
>>
>> Sorry if I be too eager to get some info about a project I try to buy for
> a Pantera friend of mine. But that's the way I learn too do business.
>> Best regards from Norway.
>> (Hope you understand my bad English spelling)
>>
>> Torbjorn Harlem
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com  [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On Behalf Of John Bentley
>> Sent: 7. desember 2010 08:00
>> To:detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...
>>
>> you guys are all waaaay too skeptical.  If Dick says he's a straight-up
> guy, wtf?  What else did you find out?  Is the trans good?  Other
pictures?
> Did you call him or send him an anonymous email?  Sounds like a witch
> hunt.........and not the good kind.
>> Being able to accurately articulate the condition is nice, but that's why
> we have a group of guys willing to step up and vouch for a person or look
at
> a car for the good of the team.  Geezus.
>> Hmmm, he listed the car for 20 and he didn't take 15?  Must be a
> scoundrel.....
>> JB
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 12/6/10, Torbjørn Harlem<torbjorn.harlem at elverhoy.no>
wrote:
>>
>> From: Torbjørn Harlem<torbjorn.harlem at elverhoy.no>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...
>> To:spkorb at gmail.com, "boyd casey"<boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> Cc:asajay at asajay.com,detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 10:27 PM
>>
>> I offered him $15,000,- if I get the Vin and some more pics of the car.
>>
>> Offer not accepted. And he answered me with that "funny" mail Mike D.
> forwarded.
>> Torbjorn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com  [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On Behalf Of Sean Korb
>> Sent: 7. desember 2010 03:46
>> To: boyd casey
>> Cc:asajay at asajay.com;detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...
>>
>> I think that's a fair price to ask if it has a working ZF... and if all
> the
>> trim and interior pieces are there and the title is in his name.  Georgia
>> doesn't require a title for a car that old, but if I were to try to title
> it
>> in North Carolina I would need the last 3 sales/transfer receipts.  If I
> was
>> looking for a car I might offer him $14-$15k.  It doesn't hurt to ask,
but
>> the price does keep away lowballers offering $8k or less.
>>
>> sean
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:19 PM, boyd casey<boyd411 at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>
>>> Everything else aside I was surprised that he thought $19,500 was "below
>>> market" Either the market has improved dramatically or I am missing
>>> something.
>>> Boyd
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 3:17 PM,<asajay at asajay.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yea... I guess I can understand that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>
>>>> Quoting bill gaino<gaino at earthlink.net>:
>>>>
>>>>> I think I know why he is not disclosing the vin.. Do we all remember
>>>>>     4001  That was t boned in Canada, Fixed back, or pieced back.
>>>>> Anyway  the new seller put it on Ebay. And one of our alert listers
>>>>> posted a  pic of it wrecked for sale for a dollar.  Just to alert a
>>>>> potential  buyer. Bill 1362
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Dec 6, 2010 2:03 PM
>>>>>> To:detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another E-bay scam...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dick,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love you man, but if this is true, he needs to re-think his
listing.
>>>>>>     If he is that knowledgeable he needs to point out if the car is
an
> L
>>>>>> or pre-L and not let his vague descriptions try to communicate that.
>>>>>> He also needs to be forthcoming with the VIN.  It's BS that he
doesn't
>>>>>> provide it.  All Panteras have a VIN, including the one hes listed.
>>>>>> Has it been removed?  Why?  It should be stamped on the footbox, so
if
>>>>>> it's not there, why isn't it there?  he should know this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Honestly,the listing looks like it was written by a 16 year old, not
>>>>>> someone who used to import and knows Panteras.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my two cents,
>>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quoting Dick Koch<arkoch at earthlink.net>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike, . I just got off the phone with Guy a few minutes ago, BS'ing
>>>>>>> about old times.  He is for real as well as the listing.  He lives
>>> near
>>>>>>> me in the north Atlanta area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Guy Anderson was responsible, as he stated in his response to
Harlem,
>>>>>>> for most of the Panteras sold in the US in the 80s, doing all the
>>> prep
>>>>>>> work necessary to get them licensed in the US.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He raced one from 84 to around '90 then converted it to run on the
>>>>>>> street, a car he took me for a cruise in along with another Pantera
>>>>>>> owner, Tom Nash, probably 15 to 20 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He is probably one of the most knowledgeable guys (no pun intended)
>>> on
>>>>>>> Pantera history, and especially anything to do with the Pantera
>>> during
>>>>>>> the 80s.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While folks lay back and try to decide if Guy is for real or not, I
>>> am
>>>>>>> going to see if a couple of friends of mine that have been
interested
>>>> in
>>>>>>> a Pantera project car are interested in the car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dick Koch - Atlanta
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/6/2010 10:41,MikeLDrew at aol.com  wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This one is hilarious:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-DETOMASO-PANTERA-GT-NEEDS-PAINT-AND-ENGI
>>>>>>>> NE-WORK-/330504512863?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4cf39aa55f
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Being offered for sale without a VIN!   Why?   Well, because most
>>>> people
>>>>>>>> will restore the car to their tastes, and of COURSE when you
>>>>>>>> restore a car,
>>>>>>>> you put a new VIN on it, right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Torbjorn Harlem wrote to the guy asking for the VIN, and his
>>> response
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> hysterical.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello There, The car is complete. I purchased this one from a
friend
>>>> to
>>>>>>>> restore but I have 2 GT5 that I am doing and do not have the time
>>>>>>>> to complete
>>>>>>>> this one now. The car is not rusty and it is very cheap because it
>>> is
>>>> not
>>>>>>>> rusty. I used to repair rusty Panteras for Ford Motor company so
>>>>>>>> I know the
>>>>>>>> difference. I also imported All of the GT5 and most of the gt4 and
>>>>>>>> Gt3 cars to
>>>>>>>> Usa in the 80's. Thanks, Guy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - countach4v
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =====
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So there!   Bid with confidence!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (NOT!) :>)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
>>>>>> ******************************************************
>>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>>
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>>> www.slickpaint.com
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