[DeTomaso] Dear Boyd - was Rookie needs help

[boyd casey]

Like wise my circuitry was stock (except for the fan modification)I had
continual problems . Intermittent head lights, windows that would go down
and not go back up. Head lights that wouldn't open etc. Some one told me
about Pantera electronics. At first I thought the stuff was a little pricey
but I now believe everything was well worth the money.
I have the fuse box and the headlight controller.
Boyd

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:

> As usual, I am late to the conversation and most of what I would say has
> been said........except.....#1488 was bone stock when I got her. Pusher fans
> abnd all. The fuze box showed melting on the headlight and fan circuits. I
> went with Jon Haas's mods and love them.... and him.  Maybe maintenance
> would have stopped the impedence heat, who knows. Coincidence that the two
> circuits I saw overload in are the two publically considered problematic?  I
> don't think so.
>
> On Aug 25, 2010 4:49 PM, "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I stand corrected on that point , he did say halogen not HID. But he also
> > said in his first sentence:
> >
> >>>>The stock components (fuse box and relays), in proper working order,
> work
> > absolutely fine.
> > The one in my car is absolutely perfect.
> > If the components are "fine" then why did he have to
> > 1. Replace his original fuse box with one from a later model?( He said
> the
> > wiring had been hacked into but that shouldn't have effected the fuse
> box.)
> > 2. Modify the original circuitry and install the Mosely relay setup for
> the
> > fans?
> > 3. Add an auxiliary fuse box to supplement the stock components that are
> > "absolutely fine"?
> > Doesn't sound stock to me!
> >>>>His quote "The one in my car is absolutely perfect. Admittedly I've
> > performed the "Moseley relay kit modification" and have moved the fan
> power
> > sources to their own aux fusebox. But the stock fusebox is otherwise
> > perfectly good and has been working fine for years. In fact, it's only
> when
> > people start hacking and whacking the electrical system, adding
> additional
> > high-draw accessories (like third radiator fans etc.) that the
> > fuseboxbecomes overwhelmed. But that's not down to a design flaw in
>
> > the
> > fusebox, that's down to owner buffoonary.
> >
> > I replaced the entire wiring harness with a STOCK 1974 harness, and the
> > fusebox with a STOCK 1974 fusebox, and then wired up everything as it had
> > been wired from the factory.
> > Subsequent to this, I upgraded the fan and headlight circuits to
> accomodate
> > my higher-power lights and fans, and in 15 years since I have never
> suffered
> > even a hint of an electrical problem).
> >
> > Explain to me how a heavily modified electrical system with the addition
> of
> > relays and an additional fuse box supports his intital claim that *the
> > stock fuse box is "Fine "
> > (Sure it is if you replace it with a new one , a new wiring harness, add
> a
> > new circuit and relays for the fans and add an auxillary fuse box) That
> must
> > fall under the new dictionary's definition of Fine, perfectly
> > good,absolutely perfect, stock, and fact.
> > In case you missed it it is the Mike Drew dictionary of facts and
> opinions
> > the extremely abridged edition
> > *
> > They statements are so full of contradictions and hypocrisy it doesn't
> merit
> > discussing.
> > Here is another example of Mike 's confusing his opinion with a fact. He
> > said:
> >>>>"There are over a hundred Panteras in PCNC. Only a handful are running
> > on anything other than the stock fusebox, and none of them have any
> systemic
> > electrical problems. So your statement is patently false."
> >
> > Where is the documentary evidence to support this statement. Did he
> survey
> > the owners? How many have altered their electrical system? How many are
> > having electrical problems? How many use their cars and what is the
> average
> > use. Anybody that has ever written a paper in the pursuit of a degree
> knows
> > that when you make a statement of fact , especially one that includes
> > statistical information you must include a bibliography showing the
> source
> > of the facts. In a legal argument any statement of fact must be supported
> by
> > documentary evidence in the form of a bibliography. Where is the proof to
> > support these so called" facts"? This is what I have been saying from the
> > very beginning. Mike mixes facts with his opinions so often that he no
> > longer knows the difference. He pulled this "fact" out of thin air or
> some
> > place to rude to mention.
> >
> > There was an earlier post about driving into a brick wall, this should be
> > changed to If a fact an an opinion hit head on and each is traveling at
> BV2
> > (the velocity of bullshit squared) do they merge and both become facts or
> > are the forever kept separate based on the law of truth prevailing and
> > bullshit always floating to the top because it has no substance .
> > I would like to ask John Hass how many Fuse boxes have been sold and how
> > many people that actually drive their cars have replaced their fuse
> boxes.
> > He may not wish to divulge his privileged business records. I would also
> > like to ask how many Pantera owners have had recurring electrical
> problems.
> > Boyd
> > I am done discussing this. When it is no longer possible to separate the
> > facts from fiction there is no point in continuing
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
> >
> >> Boyd,
> >>
> >> Actually he wrote halogen lights which is very different from HID
> lights.
> >> Halogen lights draw more power (perhaps as much as twice the current)
> than
> >> sealed beams do.
> >>
> >> snip
> >> >>>Particularly with the later cars, if the owners leave them alone,
> they
> >> are perfectly reliable as they came from the factory. Normally it's the
> >> owner modifications that introduce electrical faults--install
> super-duper
> >> Halogen headlights, sizzle the headlight switch. Install monster
> radiator
> >> fans,
> >> sizzle the fusebox. If you're going to modify your car electrically, be
> >> sure to do it right. And if you don't do it right, don't blame the car
> >> when
> >> it sputters to a stop or bursts into flame.
> >> eosnip
> >>
> >> Tomas
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> >> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of boyd casey
> >> Sent: den 25 augusti 2010 05:36
> >> To: fastgrandma at aol.com
> >> Cc: MikeLDrew at aol.com; fresnofinches at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dear Boyd - was Rookie needs help
> >>
> >>
> >> He may be saying this now-
> >>
> >> "My criticisms about certain Panteras don't involve aesthetic
> >> considerations, but rather low-class "There, I fixed it" mechanical
> >> hackery."
> >>
> >> But that's not what he has said in the past.
> >> He was critical of HID lights in his post to Peter the newbie by some
> >> unrelated coincidence my car has HID cats eye lights.
> >> Mine are far from Mechanical hackery they were made by Chris Difani who
> is
> >> probably one of the most skilled craftsmen on the list
> >> He also implied HID lights were a contributing factor to electrical
> >> problems and fuse box problems. The facts are that HID lights actually
> >> draw
> >> less current then sealed beam lights.( I didn't put HID lights on my car
> >> until after I installed the new fuse box.)
> >> He told me my choice in wheels would make my car or me "Look like a
> Ghetto
> >> master" or something to that effect
> >> He said the the fuse box is perfectly fine and adequate for the car But
> he
> >> has replace d his, replaced his wiring harness, modified his fan
> circuits,
> >> added relays and added a secondary fuse box. Why do those things if the
> >> fuse
> >> box is so good? To me that's hypocrisy.
> >> I'm not going to repeat every example of criticisms that have nothing to
> do
> >> with quality of work and everything to do with "aesthetics"
> >> I have a Pantera electronics fuse box. I bought it because the fuses
> with
> >> the exposed copper strip are antiquated and the glass tube fuses that
> made
> >> the fuse box some what serviceable were getting impossible for me to
> find.
> >> When I would slam my passenger door my lights would go out (my sealed
> beam
> >> lights) I had numerous and repeated electrical problems all directly
> >> related
> >> to the fuse box.
> >> Then My headlight relay went bad. SO Bill said he had never seen one
> fail .
> >> Mine did , I sent it to him to study. I replaced the relay with a
> Pantera
> >> electronics headlight controller. Now my headlight doors always work and
> >> with my HID lights I can actually drive at night. I did the fan relay
> >> installation that is outlined in the " Pantera place" web site . The web
> >> site I suggested peter the newbie familiarize himself with. Showing
> someone
> >> where to find the answers to their questions makes them self sufficent
> and
> >> helps them to actually learn about their car, instead of just being told
> >> how
> >> to fix it.
> >> By the way Mike gave the same advice right after I did, I told the guy
> >> about
> >> the schematics and SO Bill , so did mike, right after I did.
> >> He made disparaging remarks about the suggestions I made to Peter (with
> >> out
> >> mentioning my name but it was so obvious it made me sick. If you are
> going
> >> to be a prick be a prick to my face don't make veiled insults have some
> >> balls!.
> >> Last week he said the Brembo brake modification I just put on my car
> was"
> >> home made and hobbled together" He doesn't know anything about it. But
> he
> >> is
> >> knocking the work of an entire group of people and making judgemental
> >> statements that are baseless. The thing that bothered me was not his
> >> baseless opinion but the possiability that some other newbie or someone
> who
> >> thinks Mike Drew actually knows what he is talking about may take his
> >> comments seriously and that could hurt the efforts and years of work
> that
> >> went into this project. That's why I have said and asked repeatedly for
> him
> >> to stop mixing his opinions up with facts. He does know allot about
> >> panteras. Why not stick to the factual information and save the
> editorials
> >> for the peanut gallery.
> >> This is the last thing I am going to say about the subject. Unless
> someone
> >> starts making unsubstantiated, baseless, insulting, derogatory or racist
> >> comments again and portraying them as anything other then their own
> narrow
> >> minded opinions.
> >> Boyd
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:49 PM, <fastgrandma at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Maybe your sign off reflects your knowledge.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Mke
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >> > To: fresnofinches at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> >> > Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2010 6:30 pm
> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dear Boyd - was Rookie needs help
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 8/24/10 9 56 27, fresnofinches at aol.com writes:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > Agreed, Mike is a bit biased to the more stock looking car. His
> choice.
> >> > > And mine.
> >> > >
> >> > >>>In my column however, you'll see that while I note that
> >> > Ferrari/Porsche/etc. purists look down on modified Panteras, I
> >> specifically
> >> > said
> >> > that *I*
> >> > don't, and in fact I appreciate the breadth and depth of the Pantera;
> >> it's
> >> > what makes it completely unique.
> >> >
> >> > My criticisms about certain Panteras don't involve aesthetic
> >> > considerations, but rather low-class "There, I fixed it" mechanical
> >> > hackery.
> >> > For
> >> > instance, when I bought my car, it was rusted to shreds on the right
> side
> >> > wheelhouse. You know the little hole where the parking brake cable
> >> passes
> >> > through
> >> > the sheetmetal between the inside of the car, and the caliper? My
> >> > wheelhouse
> >> > had a crack completely through it, that started at that hole and ran
> all
> >> > the way up to the turn signal bucket! The car was literally splitting
> >> > apart
> >> > there. So Jethro 'fixed' it by getting a piece of sheetmetal about the
> >> > size of the playing card, drilling four holes in it, then bolting it
> on
> >> > either
> >> > side of the crack about halfway up!
> >> >
> >> > The wheelhouse tubes were completely gone for the bottom two inches or
> >> so;
> >> > Jethro 'fixed' it by getting a piece of steel strap, about 2 inches
> wide,
> >> > drilling a couple of holes, and running it between the upper A-arm
> >> mounting
> >> > bolt and the lower A-arm mounting bolt!
> >> >
> >> > The radiator fans were evidently acting up on him, so he 'fixed' it by
> >> > bypassing the relays, and wiring each fan directly to its own 1-amp
> (!)
> >> > switch
> >> > mounted in the bottom opening on the instrument panel. But hey, they
> >> were
> >> > illuminated! When I took it apart (the day after taking possession of
> >> the
> >> > car), I found the wires burned and the switches melted.
> >> >
> >> > THIS is the kind of hackery that I object to. Boyd, you can criticize
> >> me
> >> > all you want for my stance on this particular topic, but I think most
> >> will
> >> > agree that there are some lines, particularly mechanical lines, that
> >> > shouldn't be crossed.
> >> >
> >> > Aesthetics are a much more subjective thing, but I would be
> hard-pressed
> >> to
> >> > find anybody who believes that putting fake sidepipes from the front
> >> > fenders, shag carpeting (to include the headliner), and an avocado
> green
> >> > vinyl
> >> > top
> >> > on a Pantera is an appropriate thing to do. Again, Boyd, if you choose
> >> to
> >> > go that route, knock yourself out. :>)
> >> > >
> >> > > >But the gist of his column was, as usual, worthy of endorsement.
> >> > >
> >> > >>>I'm glad you agree. I did receive numerous private e-mails from
> >> > various people when that column first appeared, all of which said
> >> > variations of
> >> > "Amen brother!" Boyd is the first person I know of who expresses a
> >> > contrary
> >> > view and defends those sorts of actions. But it takes all kinds, I
> >> > guess....
> >> >
> >> > Mke
> >> > _______________________________________________
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