[DeTomaso] Dear Boyd - was Rookie needs help
boyd casey
boyd411 at gmail.com
Wed Aug 25 16:45:16 EDT 2010
I stand corrected on that point , he did say halogen not HID. But he also
said in his first sentence:
>>>The stock components (fuse box and relays), in proper working order, work
absolutely fine.
The one in my car is absolutely perfect.
If the components are "fine" then why did he have to
1. Replace his original fuse box with one from a later model?( He said the
wiring had been hacked into but that shouldn't have effected the fuse box.)
2. Modify the original circuitry and install the Mosely relay setup for the
fans?
3. Add an auxiliary fuse box to supplement the stock components that are
"absolutely fine"?
Doesn't sound stock to me!
>>>His quote "The one in my car is absolutely perfect. Admittedly I've
performed the "Moseley relay kit modification" and have moved the fan power
sources to their own aux fusebox. But the stock fusebox is otherwise
perfectly good and has been working fine for years. In fact, it's only when
people start hacking and whacking the electrical system, adding additional
high-draw accessories (like third radiator fans etc.) that the
fuseboxbecomes overwhelmed. But that's not down to a design flaw in
the
fusebox, that's down to owner buffoonary.
I replaced the entire wiring harness with a STOCK 1974 harness, and the
fusebox with a STOCK 1974 fusebox, and then wired up everything as it had
been wired from the factory.
Subsequent to this, I upgraded the fan and headlight circuits to accomodate
my higher-power lights and fans, and in 15 years since I have never suffered
even a hint of an electrical problem).
Explain to me how a heavily modified electrical system with the addition of
relays and an additional fuse box supports his intital claim that *the
stock fuse box is "Fine "
(Sure it is if you replace it with a new one , a new wiring harness, add a
new circuit and relays for the fans and add an auxillary fuse box) That must
fall under the new dictionary's definition of Fine, perfectly
good,absolutely perfect, stock, and fact.
In case you missed it it is the Mike Drew dictionary of facts and opinions
the extremely abridged edition
*
They statements are so full of contradictions and hypocrisy it doesn't merit
discussing.
Here is another example of Mike 's confusing his opinion with a fact. He
said:
>>>"There are over a hundred Panteras in PCNC. Only a handful are running
on anything other than the stock fusebox, and none of them have any systemic
electrical problems. So your statement is patently false."
Where is the documentary evidence to support this statement. Did he survey
the owners? How many have altered their electrical system? How many are
having electrical problems? How many use their cars and what is the average
use. Anybody that has ever written a paper in the pursuit of a degree knows
that when you make a statement of fact , especially one that includes
statistical information you must include a bibliography showing the source
of the facts. In a legal argument any statement of fact must be supported by
documentary evidence in the form of a bibliography. Where is the proof to
support these so called" facts"? This is what I have been saying from the
very beginning. Mike mixes facts with his opinions so often that he no
longer knows the difference. He pulled this "fact" out of thin air or some
place to rude to mention.
There was an earlier post about driving into a brick wall, this should be
changed to If a fact an an opinion hit head on and each is traveling at BV2
(the velocity of bullshit squared) do they merge and both become facts or
are the forever kept separate based on the law of truth prevailing and
bullshit always floating to the top because it has no substance .
I would like to ask John Hass how many Fuse boxes have been sold and how
many people that actually drive their cars have replaced their fuse boxes.
He may not wish to divulge his privileged business records. I would also
like to ask how many Pantera owners have had recurring electrical problems.
Boyd
I am done discussing this. When it is no longer possible to separate the
facts from fiction there is no point in continuing
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
> Boyd,
>
> Actually he wrote halogen lights which is very different from HID lights.
> Halogen lights draw more power (perhaps as much as twice the current) than
> sealed beams do.
>
> snip
> >>>Particularly with the later cars, if the owners leave them alone, they
> are perfectly reliable as they came from the factory. Normally it's the
> owner modifications that introduce electrical faults--install super-duper
> Halogen headlights, sizzle the headlight switch. Install monster radiator
> fans,
> sizzle the fusebox. If you're going to modify your car electrically, be
> sure to do it right. And if you don't do it right, don't blame the car
> when
> it sputters to a stop or bursts into flame.
> eosnip
>
> Tomas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of boyd casey
> Sent: den 25 augusti 2010 05:36
> To: fastgrandma at aol.com
> Cc: MikeLDrew at aol.com; fresnofinches at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dear Boyd - was Rookie needs help
>
>
> He may be saying this now-
>
> "My criticisms about certain Panteras don't involve aesthetic
> considerations, but rather low-class "There, I fixed it" mechanical
> hackery."
>
> But that's not what he has said in the past.
> He was critical of HID lights in his post to Peter the newbie by some
> unrelated coincidence my car has HID cats eye lights.
> Mine are far from Mechanical hackery they were made by Chris Difani who is
> probably one of the most skilled craftsmen on the list
> He also implied HID lights were a contributing factor to electrical
> problems and fuse box problems. The facts are that HID lights actually
> draw
> less current then sealed beam lights.( I didn't put HID lights on my car
> until after I installed the new fuse box.)
> He told me my choice in wheels would make my car or me "Look like a Ghetto
> master" or something to that effect
> He said the the fuse box is perfectly fine and adequate for the car But he
> has replace d his, replaced his wiring harness, modified his fan circuits,
> added relays and added a secondary fuse box. Why do those things if the
> fuse
> box is so good? To me that's hypocrisy.
> I'm not going to repeat every example of criticisms that have nothing to do
> with quality of work and everything to do with "aesthetics"
> I have a Pantera electronics fuse box. I bought it because the fuses with
> the exposed copper strip are antiquated and the glass tube fuses that made
> the fuse box some what serviceable were getting impossible for me to find.
> When I would slam my passenger door my lights would go out (my sealed beam
> lights) I had numerous and repeated electrical problems all directly
> related
> to the fuse box.
> Then My headlight relay went bad. SO Bill said he had never seen one fail .
> Mine did , I sent it to him to study. I replaced the relay with a Pantera
> electronics headlight controller. Now my headlight doors always work and
> with my HID lights I can actually drive at night. I did the fan relay
> installation that is outlined in the " Pantera place" web site . The web
> site I suggested peter the newbie familiarize himself with. Showing someone
> where to find the answers to their questions makes them self sufficent and
> helps them to actually learn about their car, instead of just being told
> how
> to fix it.
> By the way Mike gave the same advice right after I did, I told the guy
> about
> the schematics and SO Bill , so did mike, right after I did.
> He made disparaging remarks about the suggestions I made to Peter (with
> out
> mentioning my name but it was so obvious it made me sick. If you are going
> to be a prick be a prick to my face don't make veiled insults have some
> balls!.
> Last week he said the Brembo brake modification I just put on my car was"
> home made and hobbled together" He doesn't know anything about it. But he
> is
> knocking the work of an entire group of people and making judgemental
> statements that are baseless. The thing that bothered me was not his
> baseless opinion but the possiability that some other newbie or someone who
> thinks Mike Drew actually knows what he is talking about may take his
> comments seriously and that could hurt the efforts and years of work that
> went into this project. That's why I have said and asked repeatedly for him
> to stop mixing his opinions up with facts. He does know allot about
> panteras. Why not stick to the factual information and save the editorials
> for the peanut gallery.
> This is the last thing I am going to say about the subject. Unless someone
> starts making unsubstantiated, baseless, insulting, derogatory or racist
> comments again and portraying them as anything other then their own narrow
> minded opinions.
> Boyd
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:49 PM, <fastgrandma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe your sign off reflects your knowledge.
> >
> >
> > Mke
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > To: fresnofinches at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> > Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2010 6:30 pm
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dear Boyd - was Rookie needs help
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/24/10 9 56 27, fresnofinches at aol.com writes:
> >
> >
> > > Agreed, Mike is a bit biased to the more stock looking car. His choice.
> > > And mine.
> > >
> > >>>In my column however, you'll see that while I note that
> > Ferrari/Porsche/etc. purists look down on modified Panteras, I
> specifically
> > said
> > that *I*
> > don't, and in fact I appreciate the breadth and depth of the Pantera;
> it's
> > what makes it completely unique.
> >
> > My criticisms about certain Panteras don't involve aesthetic
> > considerations, but rather low-class "There, I fixed it" mechanical
> > hackery.
> > For
> > instance, when I bought my car, it was rusted to shreds on the right side
> > wheelhouse. You know the little hole where the parking brake cable
> passes
> > through
> > the sheetmetal between the inside of the car, and the caliper? My
> > wheelhouse
> > had a crack completely through it, that started at that hole and ran all
> > the way up to the turn signal bucket! The car was literally splitting
> > apart
> > there. So Jethro 'fixed' it by getting a piece of sheetmetal about the
> > size of the playing card, drilling four holes in it, then bolting it on
> > either
> > side of the crack about halfway up!
> >
> > The wheelhouse tubes were completely gone for the bottom two inches or
> so;
> > Jethro 'fixed' it by getting a piece of steel strap, about 2 inches wide,
> > drilling a couple of holes, and running it between the upper A-arm
> mounting
> > bolt and the lower A-arm mounting bolt!
> >
> > The radiator fans were evidently acting up on him, so he 'fixed' it by
> > bypassing the relays, and wiring each fan directly to its own 1-amp (!)
> > switch
> > mounted in the bottom opening on the instrument panel. But hey, they
> were
> > illuminated! When I took it apart (the day after taking possession of
> the
> > car), I found the wires burned and the switches melted.
> >
> > THIS is the kind of hackery that I object to. Boyd, you can criticize
> me
> > all you want for my stance on this particular topic, but I think most
> will
> > agree that there are some lines, particularly mechanical lines, that
> > shouldn't be crossed.
> >
> > Aesthetics are a much more subjective thing, but I would be hard-pressed
> to
> > find anybody who believes that putting fake sidepipes from the front
> > fenders, shag carpeting (to include the headliner), and an avocado green
> > vinyl
> > top
> > on a Pantera is an appropriate thing to do. Again, Boyd, if you choose
> to
> > go that route, knock yourself out. :>)
> > >
> > > >But the gist of his column was, as usual, worthy of endorsement.
> > >
> > >>>I'm glad you agree. I did receive numerous private e-mails from
> > various people when that column first appeared, all of which said
> > variations of
> > "Amen brother!" Boyd is the first person I know of who expresses a
> > contrary
> > view and defends those sorts of actions. But it takes all kinds, I
> > guess....
> >
> > Mke
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