[DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---

Wed Aug 25 07:24:30 EDT 2010

OMG! I challenge any other car gourmet to approach discussions like ours.
Dare I interject string theory or maybe the squirrel nor the wall even
really exist,  unless we want them too (although I have tripped on $@&#
laying on my garage floor in the dark that I didn't know was there...or did
I).    Michael

On Aug 25, 2010 1:03 AM, "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> The problem is your not working with a"MAGICAL BRICK WALL" Then you could
> talk about string theroy and the 11 dimensions and hitting the wall that
> isn't really solid it all because of all the space between the sub atomic
> partcles and the effects of Dark matter and that all objects in the
universe
> are constanly moving away from each other and accelerating as they move
away
> and that atomic particle make up less the 1 percent of the universe and
the
> rest is dark matter.
> Boyd
>
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 8:01 PM, <wkooiman at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> There's nothing magical about a "brick" wall. The term brick wall is used
>> to describe a fixed immovable wall.
>>
>> Immovable means when you hit the wall at 60mph, it pushes back with an
>> equivalent force.
>>
>> If your car weighs 3,000 lbs and you hit a fixed immovable wall at 60mph,
>> the damage to your car is exactly the same as if you hit a stack of
bricks
>> head-on that was moving towards you at 60mph - assuming the stack of
bricks
>> weighs 3,000 lbs.
>>
>> It's also exactly the same as what would happen if two identical cars hit
>> head-on, with each one going 60mph. (as proven on Myth Busters)
>>
>> Of course, there are many assumptions. For instance, there's no such
thing
>> as an immovable wall. It will move some, but the assumption is the
movement
>> is so small, we can ignore it. Also, crumple zones, velocity (vectors),
and
>> so on.
>>
>> Keep in mind, I don't have a PhD in Physics. I'm just stating how I think
>> it would work.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
>> >Sent: Aug 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>> >To: wkooiman at earthlink.net, 'boyd casey' <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> >Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >
>> >No. I didn't say 120.
>> >Once the brick wall is moving, it is no longer the classical fixed
"brick
>> wall." It's another moving object of mass.
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: wkooiman at earthlink.net [mailto:wkooiman at earthlink.net]
>> >Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:35 PM
>> >To: boyd casey; Tony DiGiovanna
>> >Cc: Asa Jay Laughton; detomaso at realbig.com
>> >Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >
>> >No. (not 120mph)
>> >
>> >There's nothing magical about a brick wall, moving or not. The
>> assumption, though, is the brick wall is not movable, so when you hit it,
>> you must absorb 60mph worth of kinetic energy.
>> >
>> >A head-on collision simulates hitting a brick wall. You are forced to
>> absorb all of your kinetic energy (probably 1/2 of the total).
>> >
>> >Remember, when you push on a wall, it pushes back with the same force.
>> >
>> >I'm assuming the same is true with kinetic energy. When you hit a wall
at
>> 60mph, it hits you back with the same amount of energy. It doesn't matter
>> if the wall is moving or not.
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> >>Sent: Aug 23, 2010 6:08 PM
>> >>To: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
>> >>Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>> >>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >>
>> >>There almost as bad as those trees that are always jumping out and
>> hitting
>> >>drunk drivers!
>> >>Boyd
>> >>
>> >>On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Tony DiGiovanna <
tonydigi at optonline.net
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Depends on the Mass of the Brick wall.
>> >>> If the wall is same mass as car, then yes.
>> >>> If the wall is more massive than car, then worse.
>> >>>
>> >>> I hate when massive brick walls drive the wrong way on the
Interstate.
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
>> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>> >>> On
>> >>> Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
>> >>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:12 PM
>> >>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >>>
>> >>> My stirring spoon seems to be stuck in the pot...
>> >>>
>> >>> So, if a brick wall were traveling at 60 MPH, and you were traveling
>> >>> at 60 MPH and had a head on collision, would -that- be a collision at
>> >>> 120 MPH?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Asa Jay
>> >>> :)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Quoting Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A car is designed to absorb impact in a crash through a 'crush'
>> >>> > zone, what you see in the two car head on are both cars deforming
>> >>> > and disipating the force of the impact equally as they are designed
>> >>> > to do. On the other hand a brick wall is.... well a brick wall and
>> >>> > the single car has to abosrb and disipate all the energy so I would
>> >>> > expect the two scenarios to be very similar in resulting damage.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Try propelling two bricks (or rigid objects) at each other at 60
mph
>> >>> > and see if they react the same as a singel brick propelled at the
>> >>> > wall.....
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Julian
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
>> >>> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:16:54 -0500
>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Slightly off topic, but a head-on collision isn't car1 speed +
car2
>> >>> speed.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> 60mph car head-on with 60mph car isn't like hitting a wall at
>> 120mph. It
>> >>> >> was proven very dramatically on myth busters.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I believe it's more complicated than that. It's has to do with the
>> total
>> >>> >> force. Car1 speed * car1 weight + car2 speed * car2 weight = total
>> >>> force.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Force applied to car1 = total force/car1 weight.
>> >>> >> Force applied to car2 = total force/car2 weight.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> It they're both going 60mph and they're both the same weight, it's
>> just
>> >>> like
>> >>> >> they both hit a wall going 60mph. (assuming they head dead-on,
>> glancing
>> >>> >> blows change everything)
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> If car1 is 3,000 lbs and car2 is 30,000 lbs (big rig), car1 is
going
>> to
>> >>> be
>> >>> >> much worse than head-on, and the 18-wheeler will have much less
>> damage.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I just made up those formulas, but I bet they're correct or at
least
>> >>> close.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> BTW, the wheel that went through the windshield was probably going
>> >>> >> effectively 120mph, simply because the windshield wouldn't have
>> slowed
>> >>> the
>> >>> >> tire down much at all.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
>> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> >>> ]
>> >>> On
>> >>> >> Behalf Of boyd casey
>> >>> >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:11 PM
>> >>> >> To: Art Stephens
>> >>> >> Cc: JDeRyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> I have heard of several incidents where wheels came off of
vehicles
>> and
>> >>> the
>> >>> >> vehicle that lost the wheel did ok but the errant wheel killed the
>> >>> driver
>> >>> of
>> >>> >> the car it hit. This has happened more then once in recent memory.
>> The
>> >>> one I
>> >>> >> remember more clearly the wheel cam e off a car on an interstate
and
>> >>> crossed
>> >>> >> the median. As you know the speed in a head on is car +car b +
speed
>> of
>> >>> >> impact so a car traveling at 60 mph and a loose wheel traveling at
>> 60
>> >>> mph
>> >>> >> and bouncing through the windshield and landing smack in someones
>> lap at
>> >>> 120
>> >>> >> mph effective speed, it's not a pretty picture!. When I was in
>> college
>> >>> >> (Loyola in New Orleans) I was driving a VW "Super Bug" from my
>> fathers
>> >>> Ford
>> >>> >> dealerships used car lot when I noticed a VW wheel Passing me on
the
>> >>> left!
>> >>> >> The left rear wheel came off and the next thing I knew I was
sliding
>> to
>> >>> a
>> >>> >> stop and the wheel was making great time on it's own! Luckily it
>> didn't
>> >>> hit
>> >>> >> anyone. I was always having problems with the cars that I was
given
>> to
>> >>> drive
>> >>> >> from the cheapest used car inventory. And every time I had a
problem
>> I
>> >>> got
>> >>> >> downgraded to an even cheaper car until finally I was relegated to
>> the
>> >>> >> status of pedestrian!
>> >>> >> Boyd
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Art Stephens
>> >>> >> <artstephens at verizon.net>wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> > When I crashed my car, one of the rear wheels with broken
upright,
>> >>> half
>> >>> >> > shaft and disc brake assembly attached, was found days later in
a
>> >>> gully
>> >>> >> > about a quarter mile past the car!
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >> > From: <JDeRyke at aol.com>
>> >>> >> > To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> >>> >> > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:15 PM
>> >>> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > > I've also had a 'memorable' experience with OTHER PEOPLE'S
>> wheels
>> >>> >> falling
>> >>> >> > > off. Commuting to work one morning in N CA in my modified
>> Corvair, a
>> >>> >> > > cement
>> >>> >> > > pumper truck on its way to a job site broke a rear axle flange
>> off,
>> >>> >> > > freeing a
>> >>> >> > > gigantic 'flotation' tire, wheel & brake drum at 50 mph on the
>> >>> freeway.
>> >>> >> > He
>> >>> >> > > was some ways behind me and I saw the accident in my mirrors,
>> but as
>> >>> >> race
>> >>> >> > > announcers say, in heavy traffic 'I had nowhere to go' except
to
>> >>> lean
>> >>> >> > > away.
>> >>> >> > > The 250-lb assembly bounced off guard rails and hit my drivers
>> door
>> >>> a
>> >>> >> > > glancing
>> >>> >> > > blow that knocked the 2500-lb car sideways half a lane, in
spite
>> of
>> >>> the
>> >>> >> > > traction from the same size tires I run on the Pantera. The
>> wheel
>> >>> >> finally
>> >>> >> > > stopped in the median-strip Oleander bushes. Lucky me- I was
the
>> >>> only
>> >>> >> car
>> >>> >> > > it hit!
>> >>> >> > > The dent in my car was a foot deep but luckily was confined
only
>> to
>> >>> the
>> >>> >> > > door.
>> >>> >> > > A gigantic traffic jam occurred between my banged up car and
the
>> >>> >> concrete
>> >>> >> > > truck tipped at an angle across 2 lanes. Once he saw I wasn't
>> hurt
>> >>> or
>> >>> >> > > angry,
>> >>> >> > > the truck driver (also the business owner!) was very
apologetic
>> but
>> >>> was
>> >>> >> > > MUCH
>> >>> >> > > more worried about the full load of concrete he was to have
>> >>> processed,
>> >>> >> > > rapidly setting up behind us in a second truck (pre-cell phone
>> >>> days).
>> >>> 2
>> >>> >> > > hrs
>> >>> >> > > later I drove the beat up car into work and got no crap about
>> being
>> >>> >> late.
>> >>> >> > > His
>> >>> >> > > business insurance bought me a new door and a full paint job.
>> FWIW-
>> >>> J
>> >>> >> > > DeRyke
>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> > >
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>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
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>> >>> >> >
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>> >>> >> > 23:35:00
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
>> >>> ******************************************************
>> >>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> >>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
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