[DeTomaso] Brick Walls Re: speaking of wheels falling off---

Asa Jay Laughton asajay at asajay.com
Tue Aug 24 22:43:54 EDT 2010


  No, but it's got nuthin' on the butterfly that starts a hurricane 
half-way around the world.

;)

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
&  Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com


On 8/24/2010 19:32, boyd casey wrote:
> The real question is if two brick walls hit each other while both are
> traveling at 60 mph and there is no one there , does it still make a sound?
> Boyd
>
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>wrote:
>
>>   In the case of jumping the wrong way... probably was.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>> <No squirrels were harmed in the making of this email>
>>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> &   Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>
>>
>> On 8/24/2010 17:46, Curt Hall wrote:
>>> would that be a gay squirrel?
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 8/24/10, Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Brick Walls Re: speaking of wheels falling off---
>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 5:42 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay,
>>> So if it were -two- brick walls, each moving at 60 MPH at the other,
>>> what color is the squirrel who is trying to jump off just before they
>>> hit?  And how fast will he be going when he jumps?
>>>
>>> Asa jay
>>> <lordy I feel I'm going to regret that one>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting wkooiman at earthlink.net:
>>>
>>>> There's nothing magical about a "brick" wall.  The term brick wall
>>>> is used to describe a fixed immovable wall.
>>>>
>>>> Immovable means when you hit the wall at 60mph, it pushes back with
>>>> an equivalent force.
>>>>
>>>> If your car weighs 3,000 lbs and you hit a fixed immovable wall at
>>>> 60mph, the damage to your car is exactly the same as if you hit a
>>>> stack of bricks head-on that was moving towards you at 60mph -
>>>> assuming the stack of bricks weighs 3,000 lbs.
>>>>
>>>> It's also exactly the same as what would happen if two identical
>>>> cars hit head-on, with each one going 60mph.  (as proven on Myth
>>>> Busters)
>>>>
>>>> Of course, there are many assumptions.  For instance, there's no
>>>> such thing as an immovable wall.  It will move some, but the
>>>> assumption is the movement is so small, we can ignore it.  Also,
>>>> crumple zones, velocity (vectors), and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind, I don't have a PhD in Physics.  I'm just stating how I
>>>>     think it would work.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Tony DiGiovanna<tonydigi at optonline.net>
>>>>> Sent: Aug 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>>>>> To: wkooiman at earthlink.net, 'boyd casey'<boyd411 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton'<asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>
>>>>> No.  I didn't say 120.
>>>>> Once the brick wall is moving, it is no longer the classical fixed
>>>>> "brick wall."  It's another moving object of mass.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net [mailto:wkooiman at earthlink.net]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:35 PM
>>>>> To: boyd casey; Tony DiGiovanna
>>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton; detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>
>>>>> No.  (not 120mph)
>>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing magical about a brick wall, moving or not.  The
>>>>> assumption, though, is the brick wall is not movable, so when you
>>>>> hit it, you must absorb 60mph worth of kinetic energy.
>>>>>
>>>>> A head-on collision simulates hitting a brick wall.  You are forced
>>>>>     to absorb all of your kinetic energy (probably 1/2 of the total).
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember, when you push on a wall, it pushes back with the same force.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm assuming the same is true with kinetic energy.  When you hit a
>>>>> wall at 60mph, it hits you back with the same amount of energy.  It
>>>>>     doesn't matter if the wall is moving or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: boyd casey<boyd411 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Aug 23, 2010 6:08 PM
>>>>>> To: Tony DiGiovanna<tonydigi at optonline.net>
>>>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There almost as bad as those trees that are always jumping out and
>> hitting
>>>>>> drunk drivers!
>>>>>> Boyd
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Tony DiGiovanna
>>>>>> <tonydigi at optonline.net>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Depends on the Mass of the Brick wall.
>>>>>>> If the wall is same mass as car, then yes.
>>>>>>> If the wall is more massive than car, then worse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hate when massive brick walls drive the wrong way on the
>> Interstate.
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
>> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:12 PM
>>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My stirring spoon seems to be stuck in the pot...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, if a brick wall were traveling at 60 MPH, and you were traveling
>>>>>>> at 60 MPH and had a head on collision, would -that- be a collision at
>>>>>>> 120 MPH?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quoting Julian Kift<julian_kift at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A car is designed to absorb impact in a crash through a 'crush'
>>>>>>>> zone, what you see in the two car head on are both cars deforming
>>>>>>>> and disipating the force of the impact equally as they are designed
>>>>>>>> to do. On the other hand a brick wall is.... well a brick wall and
>>>>>>>> the single car has to abosrb and disipate all the energy so I would
>>>>>>>> expect the two scenarios to be very similar in resulting damage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Try propelling two bricks (or rigid objects) at each other at 60 mph
>>>>>>>>     and see if they react the same as a singel brick propelled at the
>>>>>>>> wall.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:16:54 -0500
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slightly off topic, but a head-on collision isn't car1 speed + car2
>>>>>>> speed.
>>>>>>>>> 60mph car head-on with 60mph car isn't like hitting a wall at
>>>>>>> 120mph. It
>>>>>>>>> was proven very dramatically on myth busters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe it's more complicated than that. It's has to do with
>>>>>>>     the total
>>>>>>>>> force. Car1 speed * car1 weight + car2 speed * car2 weight = total
>>>>>>> force.
>>>>>>>>> Force applied to car1 = total force/car1 weight.
>>>>>>>>> Force applied to car2 = total force/car2 weight.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It they're both going 60mph and they're both the same weight, it's
>> just
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> they both hit a wall going 60mph. (assuming they head dead-on,
>> glancing
>>>>>>>>> blows change everything)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If car1 is 3,000 lbs and car2 is 30,000 lbs (big rig), car1 is
>> going to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> much worse than head-on, and the 18-wheeler will have much less
>> damage.
>>>>>>>>> I just made up those formulas, but I bet they're correct or at
>> least
>>>>>>> close.
>>>>>>>>> BTW, the wheel that went through the windshield was probably going
>>>>>>>>> effectively 120mph, simply because the windshield wouldn't have
>> slowed
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> tire down much at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
>> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of boyd casey
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Art Stephens
>>>>>>>>> Cc: JDeRyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have heard of several incidents where wheels came off of vehicles
>> and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> vehicle that lost the wheel did ok but the errant wheel killed the
>>>>>>> driver
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the car it hit. This has happened more then once in recent memory.
>> The
>>>>>>> one I
>>>>>>>>> remember more clearly the wheel cam e off a car on an interstate
>> and
>>>>>>> crossed
>>>>>>>>> the median. As you know the speed in a head on is car +car b +
>> speed of
>>>>>>>>> impact so a car traveling at 60 mph and a loose wheel traveling at
>> 60
>>>>>>> mph
>>>>>>>>> and bouncing through the windshield and landing smack in
>>>>>>> someones lap at
>>>>>>> 120
>>>>>>>>> mph effective speed, it's not a pretty picture!. When I was in
>> college
>>>>>>>>> (Loyola in New Orleans) I was driving a VW "Super Bug" from my
>> fathers
>>>>>>> Ford
>>>>>>>>> dealerships used car lot when I noticed a VW wheel Passing me on
>> the
>>>>>>> left!
>>>>>>>>> The left rear wheel came off and the next thing I knew I was
>> sliding to
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> stop and the wheel was making great time on it's own! Luckily it
>> didn't
>>>>>>> hit
>>>>>>>>> anyone. I was always having problems with the cars that I was given
>> to
>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>>> from the cheapest used car inventory. And every time I had a
>> problem I
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>> downgraded to an even cheaper car until finally I was relegated to
>> the
>>>>>>>>> status of pedestrian!
>>>>>>>>> Boyd
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Art Stephens
>>>>>>>>> <artstephens at verizon.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I crashed my car, one of the rear wheels with broken upright,
>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>>>>> shaft and disc brake assembly attached, was found days later in a
>>>>>>> gully
>>>>>>>>>> about a quarter mile past the car!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From:<JDeRyke at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To:<detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've also had a 'memorable' experience with OTHER PEOPLE'S wheels
>>>>>>>>> falling
>>>>>>>>>>> off. Commuting to work one morning in N CA in my modified
>>>>>>> Corvair, a
>>>>>>>>>>> cement
>>>>>>>>>>> pumper truck on its way to a job site broke a rear axle flange
>> off,
>>>>>>>>>>> freeing a
>>>>>>>>>>> gigantic 'flotation' tire, wheel&   brake drum at 50 mph on the
>>>>>>> freeway.
>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>> was some ways behind me and I saw the accident in my
>>>>>>> mirrors, but as
>>>>>>>>> race
>>>>>>>>>>> announcers say, in heavy traffic 'I had nowhere to go' except to
>>>>>>> lean
>>>>>>>>>>> away.
>>>>>>>>>>> The 250-lb assembly bounced off guard rails and hit my drivers
>> door
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> glancing
>>>>>>>>>>> blow that knocked the 2500-lb car sideways half a lane, in spite
>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> traction from the same size tires I run on the Pantera. The wheel
>>>>>>>>> finally
>>>>>>>>>>> stopped in the median-strip Oleander bushes. Lucky me- I was the
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> car
>>>>>>>>>>> it hit!
>>>>>>>>>>> The dent in my car was a foot deep but luckily was confined only
>> to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> door.
>>>>>>>>>>> A gigantic traffic jam occurred between my banged up car and the
>>>>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>>>>>>> truck tipped at an angle across 2 lanes. Once he saw I wasn't
>> hurt
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> angry,
>>>>>>>>>>> the truck driver (also the business owner!) was very apologetic
>> but
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> MUCH
>>>>>>>>>>> more worried about the full load of concrete he was to have
>>>>>>> processed,
>>>>>>>>>>> rapidly setting up behind us in a second truck (pre-cell phone
>>>>>>> days).
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>> hrs
>>>>>>>>>>> later I drove the beat up car into work and got no crap about
>> being
>>>>>>>>> late.
>>>>>>>>>>> His
>>>>>>>>>>> business insurance bought me a new door and a full paint job.
>> FWIW-
>>>>>>> J
>>>>>>>>>>> DeRyke
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
>>>>>>> ******************************************************
>>>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>>>
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