[DeTomaso] Brick Walls Re: speaking of wheels falling off---

Tue Aug 24 20:45:07 EDT 2010

As long as he has his nuts torqued properly and misses the collision, I
don't think his speed matters.    Michael "Rocky" Shortt

On Aug 24, 2010 8:40 PM, "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
> Okay,
> So if it were -two- brick walls, each moving at 60 MPH at the other,
> what color is the squirrel who is trying to jump off just before they
> hit? And how fast will he be going when he jumps?
>
> Asa jay
> <lordy I feel I'm going to regret that one>
>
>
> Quoting wkooiman at earthlink.net:
>
>> There's nothing magical about a "brick" wall. The term brick wall
>> is used to describe a fixed immovable wall.
>>
>> Immovable means when you hit the wall at 60mph, it pushes back with
>> an equivalent force.
>>
>> If your car weighs 3,000 lbs and you hit a fixed immovable wall at
>> 60mph, the damage to your car is exactly the same as if you hit a
>> stack of bricks head-on that was moving towards you at 60mph -
>> assuming the stack of bricks weighs 3,000 lbs.
>>
>> It's also exactly the same as what would happen if two identical
>> cars hit head-on, with each one going 60mph. (as proven on Myth
>> Busters)
>>
>> Of course, there are many assumptions. For instance, there's no
>> such thing as an immovable wall. It will move some, but the
>> assumption is the movement is so small, we can ignore it. Also,
>> crumple zones, velocity (vectors), and so on.
>>
>> Keep in mind, I don't have a PhD in Physics. I'm just stating how I
>> think it would work.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
>>> Sent: Aug 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>>> To: wkooiman at earthlink.net, 'boyd casey' <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>
>>> No. I didn't say 120.
>>> Once the brick wall is moving, it is no longer the classical fixed
>>> "brick wall." It's another moving object of mass.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net [mailto:wkooiman at earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:35 PM
>>> To: boyd casey; Tony DiGiovanna
>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton; detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>
>>> No. (not 120mph)
>>>
>>> There's nothing magical about a brick wall, moving or not. The
>>> assumption, though, is the brick wall is not movable, so when you
>>> hit it, you must absorb 60mph worth of kinetic energy.
>>>
>>> A head-on collision simulates hitting a brick wall. You are forced
>>> to absorb all of your kinetic energy (probably 1/2 of the total).
>>>
>>> Remember, when you push on a wall, it pushes back with the same force.
>>>
>>> I'm assuming the same is true with kinetic energy. When you hit a
>>> wall at 60mph, it hits you back with the same amount of energy. It
>>> doesn't matter if the wall is moving or not.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Aug 23, 2010 6:08 PM
>>>> To: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>
>>>> There almost as bad as those trees that are always jumping out and
hitting
>>>> drunk drivers!
>>>> Boyd
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Tony DiGiovanna
>>>> <tonydigi at optonline.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Depends on the Mass of the Brick wall.
>>>>> If the wall is same mass as car, then yes.
>>>>> If the wall is more massive than car, then worse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hate when massive brick walls drive the wrong way on the Interstate.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:12 PM
>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>>
>>>>> My stirring spoon seems to be stuck in the pot...
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if a brick wall were traveling at 60 MPH, and you were traveling
>>>>> at 60 MPH and had a head on collision, would -that- be a collision at
>>>>> 120 MPH?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > A car is designed to absorb impact in a crash through a 'crush'
>>>>> > zone, what you see in the two car head on are both cars deforming
>>>>> > and disipating the force of the impact equally as they are designed
>>>>> > to do. On the other hand a brick wall is.... well a brick wall and
>>>>> > the single car has to abosrb and disipate all the energy so I would
>>>>> > expect the two scenarios to be very similar in resulting damage.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Try propelling two bricks (or rigid objects) at each other at 60 mph
>>>>> > and see if they react the same as a singel brick propelled at the
>>>>> > wall.....
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Julian
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
>>>>> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:16:54 -0500
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Slightly off topic, but a head-on collision isn't car1 speed + car2
>>>>> speed.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 60mph car head-on with 60mph car isn't like hitting a wall at
>>>>> 120mph. It
>>>>> >> was proven very dramatically on myth busters.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I believe it's more complicated than that. It's has to do with
>>>>> the total
>>>>> >> force. Car1 speed * car1 weight + car2 speed * car2 weight = total
>>>>> force.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Force applied to car1 = total force/car1 weight.
>>>>> >> Force applied to car2 = total force/car2 weight.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It they're both going 60mph and they're both the same weight, it's
just
>>>>> like
>>>>> >> they both hit a wall going 60mph. (assuming they head dead-on,
glancing
>>>>> >> blows change everything)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> If car1 is 3,000 lbs and car2 is 30,000 lbs (big rig), car1 is
going to
>>>>> be
>>>>> >> much worse than head-on, and the 18-wheeler will have much less
damage.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I just made up those formulas, but I bet they're correct or at
least
>>>>> close.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> BTW, the wheel that went through the windshield was probably going
>>>>> >> effectively 120mph, simply because the windshield wouldn't have
slowed
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> tire down much at all.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>>> ]
>>>>> On
>>>>> >> Behalf Of boyd casey
>>>>> >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:11 PM
>>>>> >> To: Art Stephens
>>>>> >> Cc: JDeRyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I have heard of several incidents where wheels came off of vehicles
and
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> vehicle that lost the wheel did ok but the errant wheel killed the
>>>>> driver
>>>>> of
>>>>> >> the car it hit. This has happened more then once in recent memory.
The
>>>>> one I
>>>>> >> remember more clearly the wheel cam e off a car on an interstate
and
>>>>> crossed
>>>>> >> the median. As you know the speed in a head on is car +car b +
speed of
>>>>> >> impact so a car traveling at 60 mph and a loose wheel traveling at
60
>>>>> mph
>>>>> >> and bouncing through the windshield and landing smack in
>>>>> someones lap at
>>>>> 120
>>>>> >> mph effective speed, it's not a pretty picture!. When I was in
college
>>>>> >> (Loyola in New Orleans) I was driving a VW "Super Bug" from my
fathers
>>>>> Ford
>>>>> >> dealerships used car lot when I noticed a VW wheel Passing me on
the
>>>>> left!
>>>>> >> The left rear wheel came off and the next thing I knew I was
sliding to
>>>>> a
>>>>> >> stop and the wheel was making great time on it's own! Luckily it
didn't
>>>>> hit
>>>>> >> anyone. I was always having problems with the cars that I was given
to
>>>>> drive
>>>>> >> from the cheapest used car inventory. And every time I had a
problem I
>>>>> got
>>>>> >> downgraded to an even cheaper car until finally I was relegated to
the
>>>>> >> status of pedestrian!
>>>>> >> Boyd
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Art Stephens
>>>>> >> <artstephens at verizon.net>wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> > When I crashed my car, one of the rear wheels with broken
upright,
>>>>> half
>>>>> >> > shaft and disc brake assembly attached, was found days later in a
>>>>> gully
>>>>> >> > about a quarter mile past the car!
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >> > From: <JDeRyke at aol.com>
>>>>> >> > To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>> >> > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:15 PM
>>>>> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > > I've also had a 'memorable' experience with OTHER PEOPLE'S
wheels
>>>>> >> falling
>>>>> >> > > off. Commuting to work one morning in N CA in my modified
>>>>> Corvair, a
>>>>> >> > > cement
>>>>> >> > > pumper truck on its way to a job site broke a rear axle flange
off,
>>>>> >> > > freeing a
>>>>> >> > > gigantic 'flotation' tire, wheel & brake drum at 50 mph on the
>>>>> freeway.
>>>>> >> > He
>>>>> >> > > was some ways behind me and I saw the accident in my
>>>>> mirrors, but as
>>>>> >> race
>>>>> >> > > announcers say, in heavy traffic 'I had nowhere to go' except
to
>>>>> lean
>>>>> >> > > away.
>>>>> >> > > The 250-lb assembly bounced off guard rails and hit my drivers
door
>>>>> a
>>>>> >> > > glancing
>>>>> >> > > blow that knocked the 2500-lb car sideways half a lane, in
spite of
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> > > traction from the same size tires I run on the Pantera. The
wheel
>>>>> >> finally
>>>>> >> > > stopped in the median-strip Oleander bushes. Lucky me- I was
the
>>>>> only
>>>>> >> car
>>>>> >> > > it hit!
>>>>> >> > > The dent in my car was a foot deep but luckily was confined
only to
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> > > door.
>>>>> >> > > A gigantic traffic jam occurred between my banged up car and
the
>>>>> >> concrete
>>>>> >> > > truck tipped at an angle across 2 lanes. Once he saw I wasn't
hurt
>>>>> or
>>>>> >> > > angry,
>>>>> >> > > the truck driver (also the business owner!) was very apologetic
but
>>>>> was
>>>>> >> > > MUCH
>>>>> >> > > more worried about the full load of concrete he was to have
>>>>> processed,
>>>>> >> > > rapidly setting up behind us in a second truck (pre-cell phone
>>>>> days).
>>>>> 2
>>>>> >> > > hrs
>>>>> >> > > later I drove the beat up car into work and got no crap about
being
>>>>> >> late.
>>>>> >> > > His
>>>>> >> > > business insurance bought me a new door and a full paint job.
FWIW-
>>>>> J
>>>>> >> > > DeRyke
>>>>> >> > > _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
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>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
>>>>> ******************************************************
>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
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> ******************************************************
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