[DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---

wkooiman at earthlink.net wkooiman at earthlink.net
Tue Aug 24 20:01:51 EDT 2010


There's nothing magical about a "brick" wall.  The term brick wall is used to describe a fixed immovable wall.

Immovable means when you hit the wall at 60mph, it pushes back with an equivalent force.

If your car weighs 3,000 lbs and you hit a fixed immovable wall at 60mph, the damage to your car is exactly the same as if you hit a stack of bricks head-on that was moving towards you at 60mph - assuming the stack of bricks weighs 3,000 lbs.

It's also exactly the same as what would happen if two identical cars hit head-on, with each one going 60mph.  (as proven on Myth Busters)

Of course, there are many assumptions.  For instance, there's no such thing as an immovable wall.  It will move some, but the assumption is the movement is so small, we can ignore it.  Also, crumple zones, velocity (vectors), and so on.

Keep in mind, I don't have a PhD in Physics.  I'm just stating how I think it would work.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
>Sent: Aug 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>To: wkooiman at earthlink.net, 'boyd casey' <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>Cc: 'Asa Jay Laughton' <asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>
>No.  I didn't say 120.
>Once the brick wall is moving, it is no longer the classical fixed "brick wall."  It's another moving object of mass.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: wkooiman at earthlink.net [mailto:wkooiman at earthlink.net] 
>Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 8:35 PM
>To: boyd casey; Tony DiGiovanna
>Cc: Asa Jay Laughton; detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>
>No.  (not 120mph)
>
>There's nothing magical about a brick wall, moving or not.  The assumption, though, is the brick wall is not movable, so when you hit it, you must absorb 60mph worth of kinetic energy.
>
>A head-on collision simulates hitting a brick wall.  You are forced to absorb all of your kinetic energy (probably 1/2 of the total).
>
>Remember, when you push on a wall, it pushes back with the same force.
>
>I'm assuming the same is true with kinetic energy.  When you hit a wall at 60mph, it hits you back with the same amount of energy.  It doesn't matter if the wall is moving or not.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Aug 23, 2010 6:08 PM
>>To: Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>
>>Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>
>>There almost as bad as those trees that are always jumping out and hitting
>>drunk drivers!
>>Boyd
>>
>>On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Tony DiGiovanna <tonydigi at optonline.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Depends on the Mass of the Brick wall.
>>> If the wall is same mass as car, then yes.
>>> If the wall is more massive than car, then worse.
>>>
>>> I hate when massive brick walls drive the wrong way on the Interstate.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
>>> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:12 PM
>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>>
>>> My stirring spoon seems to be stuck in the pot...
>>>
>>> So, if a brick wall were traveling at 60 MPH, and you were traveling
>>> at 60 MPH and had a head on collision, would -that- be a collision at
>>> 120 MPH?
>>>
>>>
>>> Asa Jay
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > A car is designed to absorb impact in a crash through a 'crush'
>>> > zone, what you see in the two car head on are both cars deforming
>>> > and disipating the force of the impact equally as they are designed
>>> > to do. On the other hand a brick wall is.... well a brick wall and
>>> > the single car has to abosrb and disipate all the energy so I would
>>> > expect the two scenarios to be very similar in resulting damage.
>>> >
>>> > Try propelling two bricks (or rigid objects) at each other at 60 mph
>>> >  and see if they react the same as a singel brick propelled at the
>>> > wall.....
>>> >
>>> > Julian
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
>>> >> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:16:54 -0500
>>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>> >>
>>> >> Slightly off topic, but a head-on collision isn't car1 speed + car2
>>> speed.
>>> >>
>>> >> 60mph car head-on with 60mph car isn't like hitting a wall at 120mph. It
>>> >> was proven very dramatically on myth busters.
>>> >>
>>> >> I believe it's more complicated than that. It's has to do with the total
>>> >> force. Car1 speed * car1 weight + car2 speed * car2 weight = total
>>> force.
>>> >>
>>> >> Force applied to car1 = total force/car1 weight.
>>> >> Force applied to car2 = total force/car2 weight.
>>> >>
>>> >> It they're both going 60mph and they're both the same weight, it's just
>>> like
>>> >> they both hit a wall going 60mph. (assuming they head dead-on, glancing
>>> >> blows change everything)
>>> >>
>>> >> If car1 is 3,000 lbs and car2 is 30,000 lbs (big rig), car1 is going to
>>> be
>>> >> much worse than head-on, and the 18-wheeler will have much less damage.
>>> >>
>>> >> I just made up those formulas, but I bet they're correct or at least
>>> close.
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, the wheel that went through the windshield was probably going
>>> >> effectively 120mph, simply because the windshield wouldn't have slowed
>>> the
>>> >> tire down much at all.
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>> ]
>>> On
>>> >> Behalf Of boyd casey
>>> >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:11 PM
>>> >> To: Art Stephens
>>> >> Cc: JDeRyke at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
>>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>> >>
>>> >> I have heard of several incidents where wheels came off of vehicles and
>>> the
>>> >> vehicle that lost the wheel did ok but the errant wheel killed the
>>> driver
>>> of
>>> >> the car it hit. This has happened more then once in recent memory. The
>>> one I
>>> >> remember more clearly the wheel cam e off a car on an interstate and
>>> crossed
>>> >> the median. As you know the speed in a head on is car +car b + speed of
>>> >> impact so a car traveling at 60 mph and a loose wheel traveling at 60
>>> mph
>>> >> and bouncing through the windshield and landing smack in someones lap at
>>> 120
>>> >> mph effective speed, it's not a pretty picture!. When I was in college
>>> >> (Loyola in New Orleans) I was driving a VW "Super Bug" from my fathers
>>> Ford
>>> >> dealerships used car lot when I noticed a VW wheel Passing me on the
>>> left!
>>> >> The left rear wheel came off and the next thing I knew I was sliding to
>>> a
>>> >> stop and the wheel was making great time on it's own! Luckily it didn't
>>> hit
>>> >> anyone. I was always having problems with the cars that I was given to
>>> drive
>>> >> from the cheapest used car inventory. And every time I had a problem I
>>> got
>>> >> downgraded to an even cheaper car until finally I was relegated to the
>>> >> status of pedestrian!
>>> >> Boyd
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Art Stephens
>>> >> <artstephens at verizon.net>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > When I crashed my car, one of the rear wheels with broken upright,
>>> half
>>> >> > shaft and disc brake assembly attached, was found days later in a
>>> gully
>>> >> > about a quarter mile past the car!
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> > From: <JDeRyke at aol.com>
>>> >> > To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> >> > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:15 PM
>>> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] speaking of wheels falling off---
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > I've also had a 'memorable' experience with OTHER PEOPLE'S wheels
>>> >> falling
>>> >> > > off. Commuting to work one morning in N CA in my modified Corvair, a
>>> >> > > cement
>>> >> > > pumper truck on its way to a job site broke a rear axle flange off,
>>> >> > > freeing a
>>> >> > > gigantic 'flotation' tire, wheel & brake drum at 50 mph on the
>>> freeway.
>>> >> > He
>>> >> > > was some ways behind me and I saw the accident in my mirrors, but as
>>> >> race
>>> >> > > announcers say, in heavy traffic 'I had nowhere to go' except to
>>> lean
>>> >> > > away.
>>> >> > > The 250-lb assembly bounced off guard rails and hit my drivers door
>>> a
>>> >> > > glancing
>>> >> > > blow that knocked the 2500-lb car sideways half a lane, in spite of
>>> the
>>> >> > > traction from the same size tires I run on the Pantera. The wheel
>>> >> finally
>>> >> > > stopped in the median-strip Oleander bushes. Lucky me- I was the
>>> only
>>> >> car
>>> >> > > it hit!
>>> >> > > The dent in my car was a foot deep but luckily was confined only to
>>> the
>>> >> > > door.
>>> >> > > A gigantic traffic jam occurred between my banged up car and the
>>> >> concrete
>>> >> > > truck tipped at an angle across 2 lanes. Once he saw I wasn't hurt
>>> or
>>> >> > > angry,
>>> >> > > the truck driver (also the business owner!) was very apologetic but
>>> was
>>> >> > > MUCH
>>> >> > > more worried about the full load of concrete he was to have
>>> processed,
>>> >> > > rapidly setting up behind us in a second truck (pre-cell phone
>>> days).
>>> 2
>>> >> > > hrs
>>> >> > > later I drove the beat up car into work and got no crap about being
>>> >> late.
>>> >> > > His
>>> >> > > business insurance bought me a new door and a full paint job. FWIW-
>>> J
>>> >> > > DeRyke
>>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > DeTomaso mailing list
>>> >> > > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> >> > > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> ----
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> >> > Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3087 - Release Date:
>>> 08/21/10
>>> >> > 23:35:00
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at
>>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>> >> >
>>> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
>>> >> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> >> > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >> >
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >>
>>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>> >>
>>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >>
>>> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>> >>
>>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> >> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >
>>> > Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>> >
>>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>>> > DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
>>> ******************************************************
>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>>Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>>DeTomaso mailing list
>>DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso




More information about the DeTomaso mailing list