[DeTomaso] Torque question

Charles Engles cengles at cox.net
Tue Aug 24 18:42:28 EDT 2010 

Dear Boyd,


             I don't know if this will answer your question, but here goes.
One set of wheels is Etoile and work fine, but they were not hub centric.
IIRC, Mike Drew clued me to a company that makes any size plastic sizer
thingee to fit the wheel center to make it hub centric.  I had a set made
and they make taking the wheels off and on easier.  There was no problem
with the actual wheel fitment on the hub or wheel studs or with
ride&handling.

            The other car is an old BMW that now wears M3 wheels.  The
fronts are aftermarket and the rears are true M wheels.  The darn thing had
a vibration that would not go away until my brother gave me a pair of the
same plastic sizer thingees to use in the front aftermarket "M" wheels.  He
claimed that they worked on his car with the same wheel set up.  He was
right.  The front vibration went away.  He told me that they needed the
thingees in the situation of "new" M wheels on an old BMW hub.   It worked.

             So based on my limited experience, if all you need to make your
wheels hub centric is a set of the plastic thingees, then they're cheap and
they may work with a lot less expense than the new set of $500 centers.....
Good luck.


                       Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles



-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of boyd casey
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 11:18 AM
To: Julian Kift
Cc: Jack Deryke; De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Torque question

I am still trying to get a straight answer to that question (hub centric vs
lug centric) The vendor said to me "around the time we made your wheels we
were transitioning from lug centric to hub centric construction. I need to
go back and check the records on yours. If they are "Lug centric" I can
supply you with adapter rings to make them "Hub centric". So that answer
leads me to believe that they are "Lug centric' When I pick up my wheel from
the repair shop I am going to compare the back of the wheel to the hub and
see if they are hub centric. My wheels are three piece so I can (possibly )
have my wheel centers reworked to be hub centric , or my hubs or bite the
bullet and get four  new centers that are hub centric at $500 ea. What are
your thoughts on adapter rings to make lug centric wheels hub centric? What
should I do differently if the wheels are in fact Lug centric? Did you see
my answer about the studs? they are not off the shelf Pantera parts they are
12mm x 1.75" 10.9 steel  , and 12mm x 1.5 rh thread. And the lug pattern is
the same as stock  Panteras 4 x 114.3, 4.5 lug diameter. The 1.75" long
studs are also long enough to provide more then adequate thread engagement.
Boyd

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Julian Kift
<julian_kift at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Boyd,
>
> Like you said in another thread opinion's are like assholes, so why expect
> to get a singular torque answer to this question?
>
> Forget the torque for now, are your wheels hub centric or stud centric?
> That question directlly relates to the duty the studs have to perform and
> perhaps the type of stud to be used. Is the Chrysler hub assembly designed
> for use in a hub centric application or stud centric in it's normal use?
>
> Here's Tirerack's asshole on torque settings....
> http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107
>
> Quoting a torque setting of 75 ft/lb and then saying go 100 ft/lb is a
> little ludicrous, this is not a situation where you want to go that
> bit extra for 'safety'.
>
> Julian
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:26:41 -0400
> > From: boyd411 at gmail.com
> > To: JDeRyke at aol.com
> > CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Torque question
>
> >
> > I haven't gotten enough response to actually qualify as a "consensus" I
> have
> > been forwarded numerous sources that showed anywhere from 56 to 75 ft
> lb's.
> > That was my problem in the first place! The vendor that sold me my
wheels
> > said the spec was 75 ft lbs but he would go for 100 as long as it was by
> > hand, and done in the proper star pattern. I have 19" x 13.5 wheels on
> the
> > rear and 335/30/zr19 tiers so there is quite a bit of mass in the wheel
I
> > would rather err on the side of safety (as long as I am no "over
> tightening"
> > and risking damage to the aluminum wheel or pulling out the studs. I
> don't
> > think I have the strength ( even with leverage) to pull a 12 mm 10.9
stud
> > with a head the size of a nickle through a steel hub. I found out that
> the
> > hub/bearing assemblies are commercial products used on passenger cars.
> There
> > are too many manufacturers to list but I found them by Timken bearing (a
> > company and product I know and am comfortable with)
> > And they are extremely well made and have very precise tolerances. They
> gave
> > the hub outer diameter as 5.72834645669291".
> > The studs are 1.75" long, 10.9 steel, 12mm x 1.5 thread and the lug
> pattern
> > is 5 lug 114.3, bolt diameter 4.5. So they are the same lug pattern as
> > Pantera, some fords and mustangs, Toyota MR2 and a handful of
> Chrysler's..
> > So the lugs are the same diameter and thread pattern as stock pantera
but
> I
> > think they studs are longer. They are definitely not "off the shelf"
> Pantera
> > parts. The hub / bearing assembly comes already assembled with the studs
> in
> > Place. I can send you a photo if you would like or even better here is a
> > link to a Hub /bearing assembly with the same specs ( it has a picture
> front
> > and back and all the dimensions and pertinent
> > info.http://mibearings.com/wheel-bearing/513089.html#Specificaions
> > Thanks again for all your help and support . It is* Really Appreciated*.
> >
> > Boyd
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:51 AM, <JDeRyke at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 8/23/10 1:46:35 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> > >
> > > What is the consensus of what the lug nuts should be torqued at?
> > >
> > > Boyd, I forgot to ask: are they stock '71-'74 Pantera wheel studs? Or
> > > something else?
> > > THanks- J DeRyke
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