[DeTomaso] more people finding rulon/turcite

j g notstock at yahoo.com
Thu Aug 12 10:28:30 EDT 2010


http://speeddirect.com/index.aspx?nodeID=130
http://www.mamotorworks.com/corvette-c3-c2-upper-control-arms+1963+1982-aluminum-1-371-7841.html
 
http://www.tkat.com/contents.html 
 
pretty wild that me and a few others were using a similar product for over 15 years .


--- On Thu, 8/12/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>, cengles at cox.net
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 3:04 AM


Is anyone using TURCITE on a Pantera?


Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com

--- On Thu, 8/12/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>, cengles at cox.net
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Thursday, August 12, 2010, 12:59 AM


JG
 
Are you running the turcite bushings on a Pantera?


Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:


From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:16 AM



Dear JG, 

Wow. 
(1) they feel as solid as *aluminum* bushings (?) when used on street cars
(2) poly and delrin both wear out or become brittle or suffer cold flow with enough time
(3) the turcite B bushings show no wear after fifteen years of......track use and/or street use???

Dumb question: My polyurethane bushings are about twenty years old. Time to change to delrin or turcite or do I still have another decade or two until I should consider new bushings??

Fascinating, Chuck Engles


---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tried poly bushings in this 911 application, did not work well still had the same problem as the rubber , on street door bangers the turcite bearing feels as solid as an aluminum bearing from a responce stand point but has none of the bad clunky noises and are maintainence free . next they never wear out aluminum and poly or delrin all wear out or become brittle /cold flow . The turcite in a couple of cars I have have been in them ( lower control arm bushings)  for over 15 years and they are like new.jg

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:00 AM

Dear JG, Hmm, you've bettered the Porsche engineers----great! Dumb question: using your seat of the pants test device, do you perceive any difference in ride and handling function compared to the much more common polyurethane? Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>no porsche does not from the factory use it,  they used hard rubber , I used it on some 911 race cars i have  to get rid of the factory rubber pieces that move too much and cause a 911 car to upset itself in "power on"  transition in mid corner and corner exit   , and actually found out about it in a similar application from a buddy of mine at nasa in the bay area. they used it in bearing/bushings for space applications, I used it for tooling and bed ways ,after talking to my friend I tried it in that application in the 911 for my race cars and the rest is history .  I replaced all the rubber or aluminum with either heims or with turcite a, or b  depending on location , the turcite absorbes vibration and does not squeek in the places I have used it. jg.

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:24 AM

Dear JG, Very, very interesting. You also mention the "cold flow" phenomenon of Delrin. Anyway, the Turcite B material is used by Porsche and you recommend it. Wow, who knew about the secret life of bushing technology?! Thanks for the short course on high tech plastics. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Turcite is a composite material used to line and repair bed ways on machine tools like  mills. The concept came up when trying to get bushings that would locate the control arm as well as be self lubricating , allows a press fit and will not bind in an application on a Porsche 911 rear trailing  arm. The rear arm has this huge rubber bushing that gets compressed in the rear control arm attachment bracket and acts as both the bearing and locater for the trailing arm as well as has to take the load from the torsion spring that all 911 cars (air cooled) have . The use of aluminum caused binding , delrin cold flows too much and the bushing/bearing goes out of whack in very few runs , , tried lots of other materials and then did a lot of research I had turcite b and c rods in my shop for use as self lubricating busings in tooling so tried it and it was better than any thing else from a wear , stability , press filt with no cold flow and is compatable with
all lubricants and fluids common in a car.Next it can be machined to tight tolerances and for the 911 trailing arm joint that has complex motion it worked , I use turcite extensively in any door slammer car when I want good bushings that work as well as all metal but need no lubrication.jg
--- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 9:42 AM

Dear JG,Ouch. My head hurts. First, there were stock rubber bushings. Then, came Polyurethane. Recently, Delrin bushings appeared. Now, you've added Turcite B?! Holy Cow.All I could find, that I could understand via Google, is it that it resembles Teflon, but has a lower melting point and a (much) higher buying price.How did you come upon Turcite B and decide to use it as a bushing material?Still curious about all the bushing options, Chuck Engles
---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>quite frankly Turcite B makes the best control arm bushings I have ever used .they are if machined properly as good as a spherical ball in control and wear .jg

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
To: cengles at cox.net
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:09 AM

Doc, Mark, & Ken,
 
Save the chlorine for the pool and If they salt the roads in Oklahoma you better go with
poly or rubber. ;-]>


Mad Dawg Antenucci
Team Pantera Racing
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
www.teampanteraracing.com

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:


From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Delrin control arm bushings
To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:02 AM








Dear Dennis, Mark and Ken,

Thanks for responding to my dumb delrin questions. I did Google it---finally (duh). It does seem to be quite a formidable plastic. The only downside seems to be some real deterioration to acids and to chlorine (salt on the roads?---something that is possible,but *extremely* unlikely with a Pantera). I recall that the specs seemed to say that it was *harder* than nylon. It also did *not* say anything about my fuzzy recollection of "cold flow" deformation. Also, just as Mark says, it can be *machined* to exactly what (offset) you would like. Pretty cool stuff.

So, to answer the question of about it "softness": it ain't soft and is at least as hard as polyurethane, if not a bit harder.

Warmest regards, Chuck Engles


---- Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>














Doc,
The delrin offset bushings are machined so they are harder material then poly but also don't need to be lubed.  Dick made several changes to suspension at the same time so you may want to talk to Dick  or others doing the same thing. All I can say is the bushings he installed look new as the day he put them on 7-8 years ago.  
 
Mad Dawg Antenucci
Team Pantera Racing
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
www.teampanteraracing.com

--- On Tue, 8/10/10, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:


From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
To: "'Mad Dog Antenucci'" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:47 PM


Dear Dennis,


          Can you recall why Dick recommended Delrin over Polyurethane
bushings?   I am curious as to why he specified their use in the front
rather than on all four corners.  Is Delrin softer than poly, but harder
than rubber???


                    Very curious,  Chuck Engles




-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:59 AM
To: D421996 at aol.com; boyd casey
Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings

Good post Boyd....as a 3rd alternative Dick Drenske convinced me to go with
DELRIN front end bushings. I prefer them over rubber or poly


Mad Dawg Antenucci
Team Pantera Racing
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
www.teampanteraracing.com

--- On Tue, 8/10/10, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:


From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
To: D421996 at aol.com
Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 9:19 AM


Some people (like Mike Drew) prefer the original rubber bushings. Others
(like me ) prefered to go with poly -graphite bushings.
The hardest part of the job is removing the old robber bushings. After years
of being in place the are extremely difficult to remove. There is a good
tech article in the "Your Pantera Place" web page, here is a direct link to
the article.
http://www.panteraplace.com/page82.htm   The question of your ability to do
this in a home garage is subjective. If you have the right tools and
patience you can do it. Many people ( including me) used a torch to burn out
the old rubber bushings and then a sawz all to cut through the steel outer
sleeve Then I used a specially fabricated tool to hammer out the steel core
(that was now split by the saw). An way you slice it (pun intended) it is a
major PIA. There is an advertisement in the latest POCA Profiles magazine
from Pantera Parts connection  (www.PanteraParts.com) They will supply
refurbished A-arms (glass beaded, Powder coated, and reinstall factory
bushings. For an extra $20.00 per a-arm they will install zerk fittings so
you can keep the bushings lubed. They charge $100.00 per A-arm or $720.00
for a complete set (NOT INCLUDING POLY BUSHINGS) but they will replace with
rubber bushings for that price. The New Poly bushings are available in
several different combinations of materials. They are simple to install
(they just twist together) and they are equally easy to remove. I would do
some research on the differences between the two different basic types and
decide which you want. I have a set of brand new rubber bushings I would be
willing to sell because I bought a complete suspension rebuild kit and did
not use the bushing if you decide you want rubber bushings let me know and I
will give you a good deal. Depending on how you plan to use your car will
probably effect your decision.  If I remember correctly a complete set of
Poly bushings costs around $240.00. I bought mine from Dennis Quella.
Good Luck,

Boyd

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:58 AM, <D421996 at aol.com> wrote:

> What is the recommended bushings to use on a 74 GTS, and how difficult is
> it to do at home in your garage?  Where is the best place to  purchase?
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