[DeTomaso] c & m blocks

GW gow2 at rc-tech.net
Wed Aug 11 19:56:48 EDT 2010


If you already have a rare FMX block great, but if you don't it's not 
necessary to locate one.

Steve Hawkins wrote:
> If my FMX block gets damaged I can still go with a regular 400 block and
> just have to change the bellhousing.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GW [mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:46 AM
> To: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> Cc: JDeRyke at aol.com; shawkins777 at comcast.net; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] c & m blocks
>
>
> Point being the block itself is already 400ci without touching it. Mine 
> is stroked to 434. There was talk of some one building a lager stroker 
> for it but that has not materialized.
>
> As far as the bellhousing, like I posted before, Quicktime has a 
> bellhousing but it is made for the GT40 so it is inverted. If you 
> re-drill it and dial it in you will have an engine where replacement 
> cores are $50 anywhere. I think the FMX is a waste. It's an elusive 
> block and if you damage tough finding another one.
>
> Like I said before, the engine mounts, headers and rest of it is minimal 
> if you do that sort of thing. If you buy your stuff from Autozone then 
> it's not as doable but a 460 is by far worse. This was my post form a 
> couple days ago:
>
>
>
>
> There are some obstacles. You ability to overcome the obstacles will 
> help YOU device if it is for you or not. Obviously some small issues 
> ignored here. If you can deal with the large issues, you can certainly 
> deal with the small ones. If you are a car guy/craftsman you can over 
> come these obstacles. If you abilities stop at what you can buy from 
> Autozone then no.
>
> While a 400 or 351m (modified from 400 but same block) has many things 
> in common with a Cleveland there are some differences.
>
> Deck Height is 1 inch taller. This will likely mean new headers. It will 
> pull the water the water connection up higher and some things will be 
> tighter. There is clearance at the rear of the heads in the bay but it 
> does get tighter. Standard build stuff for custom cars.
>
> Limited number of Ford intakes so to use Cleveland intakes you will need 
> spacer which are readily available. I am using spacer for now but I am 
> welding up Webber intake from scratch. You can see the spacers here:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/ts/d2.jpg
>
> Motor mounts. One side of the 400 has the embossment for the Cleveland 
> motor mount but is not drilled. You could drill and tap one side and fab 
> a new motor mount for the other side. I just built new motor mounts. 
> Easy fab. I can help guide you if that's your plan. You can see mine 
> behind the lower mounts powder coated here ready for assembly:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/rollbar/pc1.jpg
>
> QuickTime makes a bell housing 400-ZF with one problem. Bolt holes are 
> inverted. You can re-drill the holes but you must check shaft alignment! 
> If you find a 400FMX block it will fit a Cleveland bell housing. The 
> beauty of using the quicktime is 400 blocks are a dime a dozen!!!! The 
> quicktime will also mean a different throw out set up, or possibly a HTOB.
>
> Those are the biggies. Everything else secondary to those items. I think 
> the 400 is a dream. I wouldn't think of a mod motor, a modern motor or 
> something small and complicated. With aluminum heads, intake mine is 
> stroked to 434 CI at about the same weight as the Cleveland was. The 
> engine was built for low rpm, TQ and durability. Dynoed  500hp, 534lbs 
> tq. Made 450lbs of tq at 2000 rpm. Limiting it to 5,000rpm should do 
> away with many long term problems and should last for a long time.
>
> There is NO substitute for cubic inches!!
>
> A couple guys have done this. All doable.
>
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/ladder/lad10.jpg
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/InPrimmer.jpg
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/index.htm
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> wkooiman at earthlink.net wrote:
>   
>> Agreed, but why would you do a 400M when you can do a 408C?
>>
>> Even better, run a Dart or SVO block and do a 9.5" deck Clevor.
>>
>> The 400M obviously has a better rod angle, and it isn't stroked to 
>> 400, so you don't need a stroker crank, rods, or pistons.  But... does 
>> that make up for the motor mount mods, custom headers, intake spacers, 
>> and the difficulty in finding an FMX block (or running a 385 
>> bellhousing)?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>   
>>     
>>> From: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>>> Sent: Aug 10, 2010 10:29 PM
>>> To: JDeRyke at aol.com
>>> Cc: shawkins777 at comcast.net, detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] c & m blocks
>>>
>>> Uhm, what are you smoking? Comparing a 460 built with aluminum heads,
>>> intake to a stock 400 out of a truck?
>>>
>>> 351c weighs stock 550lbs.
>>> 400 STOCK out of a TRUCK weighs 575. 25lbs more.
>>> 460 STOCK weighs 720 freeking lbs! STOCK.
>>>
>>> You can't compare a stock truck engine to a hot rod aluminum 
>>> intake/head
>>> engine. 500+ easy HP out of a 400 with damn good TQ through out the 
>>> power curve and have been used many times. With aluminum heads, intake 
>>> performance parts, etc they shed more then the extra 25lbs!
>>>
>>> Stripped down a 400 block IS A STROKED CLEVELAND!
>>>
>>> I agree the 460 is an amazing engine. I have seen them stroked to 
>>> nearly
>>> 600 cubs making close to 900 streatable HP. But they are a bastard 
>>> engine in a Pantera. I have seen people with 460's and they are all 
>>> plagued by axle weakness. I have seen 2 break axles on launches form the 
>>> poor angles required form moving the engines back. They just don't fit 
>>> right.
>>>
>>> The 400 fits in the bay. Some header work, engine mount work but you
>>> don't have to redesign the whole damn engine bay. I love the 460 but it 
>>> is an acheleis heal for those who have put one in. They still don't have 
>>> the room to put the larger heads and such on they make the 900 
>>> streatable HP.
>>>
>>> There are a couple 400's out there. Mine will be soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> JDeRyke at aol.com wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> On Tue 10/08/10 6:05 PM , "Steve Hawkins" shawkins777 at comcast.net 
>>>> sent:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> This not accurate information. Almost everything on a 351C will 
>>>>> swap over
>>>>> to a 400 except the crank, rods, push rods and motor mounts
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>> What I said: you will replace everything in & on the (400) engine.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say nothing off a real Cleveland would fit; I said   nothing
>>>>         
> off 
>   
>>>> the 400 is useful to a performance build-up, except maybe the cast 
>>>> crank in
>>>> some cases. 
>>>>
>>>> And it sound like you've done exactly that in your build-up, Steve. 
>>>> Not
>>>> sure whether the stock Pantera alternator/AC bracket will bolt straight
>>>>         
> onto 
>   
>>>> the taller 400 block or if it also needs an adaption. You can advise us
>>>>         
> once 
>   
>>>> you get the engine set in place. 
>>>> FWIW, a 460 stroked to 510-550 cubic inches and mildly tuned with with 
>>>> aluminum SVO heads, alum. intake w/Holley 850 and alum. waterpump puts
>>>>         
> out maybe 
>   
>>>> 650 bhp on 91 octane & weighs 600 lbs: 50 lbs more than a stock 351-C's
>>>>         
> 550 
>   
>>>> lbs, according to the Byars Bros who swapped a dozen or so of these. My 
>>>> chart from Ford's website shows stock 351M and 400M engine ass'ys
>>>>         
> weighing 575 
>   
>>>> lbs; believable given the 1" taller cylinder decks. Cheers- J DeRyke
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>>>>   
>>>>       
>>>>         
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>>     
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