[DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings

[j g]

correction rulon 142 is closer to turcite B and is even the same color. 

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: j g <notstock at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
To: cengles at cox.net, "Douglas Kelm" <dakelm at qwest.net>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 2:39 PM






Ihave used turcite  a or b ,  a is blue,   X is red and b  used to be an auqua color  B is the hardest and best for high loads  as it has much higher content of fillers usually bronze and others  Turcite A  is  similar to Rulon 142  

--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Douglas Kelm <dakelm at qwest.net> wrote:


From: Douglas Kelm <dakelm at qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>, cengles at cox.net
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 2:32 PM


Are you using Turcite A (Blue) or Turcite X (red)?

Doug

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
To: <cengles at cox.net>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings


> Tried poly bushings in this 911 application, did not work well still had
the same problem as the rubber , on street door bangers the turcite bearing
feels as solid as an aluminum bearing from a responce stand point but has
none of the bad clunky noises and are maintainence free . next they never
wear out aluminum and poly or delrin all wear out or become brittle /cold
flow . The turcite in a couple of cars I have have been in them ( lower
control arm bushings) for over 15 years and they are like new.
> jg
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] TURCITE control arm bushings
> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:00 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear JG,
>
> Hmm, you've bettered the Porsche engineers----great! Dumb question: using
your seat of the pants test device, do you perceive any difference in ride
and handling function compared to the much more common polyurethane?
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
>
> no porsche does not from the factory use it, they used hard rubber ,
> I used it on some 911 race cars i have to get rid of the factory rubber
pieces that move too much and cause a 911 car to upset itself in "power on"
transition in mid corner and corner exit , and actually found out about it
in a similar application from a buddy of mine at nasa in the bay area. they
used it in bearing/bushings for space applications, I used it for tooling
and bed ways ,
> after talking to my friend I tried it in that application in the 911 for
my race cars and the rest is history . I replaced all the rubber or aluminum
with either heims or with turcite a, or b depending on location , the
turcite absorbes vibration and does not squeek in the places I have used it.
>
> jg
> .
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:24 AM
>
>
>
>
> Dear JG,
>
> Very, very interesting. You also mention the "cold flow" phenomenon of
Delrin. Anyway, the Turcite B material is used by Porsche and you recommend
it. Wow, who knew about the secret life of bushing technology?! Thanks for
the short course on high tech plastics.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
>
> Turcite is a composite material used to line and repair bed ways on
machine tools like mills. The concept came up when trying to get bushings
that would locate the control arm as well as be self lubricating , allows a
press fit and will not bind in an application on a Porsche 911 rear trailing
arm. The rear arm has this huge rubber bushing that gets compressed in the
rear control arm attachment bracket and acts as both the bearing and locater
for the trailing arm as well as has to take the load from the torsion spring
that all 911 cars (air cooled) have . The use of aluminum caused binding ,
delrin cold flows too much and the bushing/bearing goes out of whack in very
few runs , , tried lots of other materials and then did a lot of research I
had turcite b and c rods in my shop for use as self lubricating busings in
tooling so tried it and it was better than any thing else from a wear ,
stability , press filt with no cold flow and is compatable with
>  all lubricants and fluids common in a car.
> Next it can be machined to tight tolerances and for the 911 trailing arm
joint that has complex motion it worked , I use turcite extensively in any
door slammer car when I want good bushings that work as well as all metal
but need no lubrication.
> jg
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 9:42 AM
>
>
>
>
> Dear JG,
>
> Ouch. My head hurts. First, there were stock rubber bushings. Then, came
Polyurethane. Recently, Delrin bushings appeared. Now, you've added Turcite
B?! Holy Cow.
>
> All I could find, that I could understand via Google, is it that it
resembles Teflon, but has a lower melting point and a (much) higher buying
price.
>
> How did you come upon Turcite B and decide to use it as a bushing
material?
>
> Still curious about all the bushing options, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
>
> quite frankly Turcite B makes the best control arm bushings I have ever
used .
> they are if machined properly as good as a spherical ball in control and
wear .
> jg
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: cengles at cox.net
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:09 AM
>
>
> Doc, Mark, & Ken,
>
> Save the chlorine for the pool and If they salt the roads in Oklahoma you
better go with
> poly or rubber. ;-]>
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Delrin control arm bushings
> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:02 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dennis, Mark and Ken,
>
> Thanks for responding to my dumb delrin questions. I did Google
it---finally (duh). It does seem to be quite a formidable plastic. The only
downside seems to be some real deterioration to acids and to chlorine (salt
on the roads?---something that is possible,but *extremely* unlikely with a
Pantera). I recall that the specs seemed to say that it was *harder* than
nylon. It also did *not* say anything about my fuzzy recollection of "cold
flow" deformation. Also, just as Mark says, it can be *machined* to exactly
what (offset) you would like. Pretty cool stuff.
>
> So, to answer the question of about it "softness": it ain't soft and is at
least as hard as polyurethane, if not a bit harder.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> ---- Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Doc,
> The delrin offset bushings are machined so they are harder material then
poly but also don't need to be lubed. Dick made several changes to
suspension at the same time so you may want to talk to Dick or others doing
the same thing. All I can say is the bushings he installed look new as the
day he put them on 7-8 years ago.
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
> To: "'Mad Dog Antenucci'" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:47 PM
>
>
> Dear Dennis,
>
>
> Can you recall why Dick recommended Delrin over Polyurethane
> bushings? I am curious as to why he specified their use in the front
> rather than on all four corners. Is Delrin softer than poly, but harder
> than rubber???
>
>
> Very curious, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:59 AM
> To: D421996 at aol.com; boyd casey
> Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
>
> Good post Boyd....as a 3rd alternative Dick Drenske convinced me to go
with
> DELRIN front end bushings. I prefer them over rubber or poly
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> --- On Tue, 8/10/10, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
> To: D421996 at aol.com
> Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 9:19 AM
>
>
> Some people (like Mike Drew) prefer the original rubber bushings. Others
> (like me ) prefered to go with poly -graphite bushings.
> The hardest part of the job is removing the old robber bushings. After
years
> of being in place the are extremely difficult to remove. There is a good
> tech article in the "Your Pantera Place" web page, here is a direct link
to
> the article.
> http://www.panteraplace.com/page82.htm The question of your ability to do
> this in a home garage is subjective. If you have the right tools and
> patience you can do it. Many people ( including me) used a torch to burn
out
> the old rubber bushings and then a sawz all to cut through the steel outer
> sleeve Then I used a specially fabricated tool to hammer out the steel
core
> (that was now split by the saw). An way you slice it (pun intended) it is
a
> major PIA. There is an advertisement in the latest POCA Profiles magazine
> from Pantera Parts connection (www.PanteraParts.com) They will supply
> refurbished A-arms (glass beaded, Powder coated, and reinstall factory
> bushings. For an extra $20.00 per a-arm they will install zerk fittings so
> you can keep the bushings lubed. They charge $100.00 per A-arm or $720.00
> for a complete set (NOT INCLUDING POLY BUSHINGS) but they will replace
with
> rubber bushings for that price. The New Poly bushings are available in
> several different combinations of materials. They are simple to install
> (they just twist together) and they are equally easy to remove. I would do
> some research on the differences between the two different basic types and
> decide which you want. I have a set of brand new rubber bushings I would
be
> willing to sell because I bought a complete suspension rebuild kit and did
> not use the bushing if you decide you want rubber bushings let me know and
I
> will give you a good deal. Depending on how you plan to use your car will
> probably effect your decision. If I remember correctly a complete set of
> Poly bushings costs around $240.00. I bought mine from Dennis Quella.
> Good Luck,
>
> Boyd
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:58 AM, <D421996 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > What is the recommended bushings to use on a 74 GTS, and how difficult
is
> > it to do at home in your garage? Where is the best place to purchase?
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