[DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
asajay at asajay.com
asajay at asajay.com
Wed Aug 11 14:27:08 EDT 2010
Good catch...
It was a loose fastener behind the wheel. The driver got two wheels
off course (into dirt) and instead of trying to slow and stop,
attempted re-entering the course. The rest is now history.
To make it worse (this is -rumor-, I don't actually know this for
certain), the Porsche was -not- being driven by the owner, but by
someone else they loaned it to.
Asa Jay
Quoting j g <notstock at yahoo.com>:
> no i think that the link shows a little more than a turcite bushing
> could do , looks to me that there must have been a loose fastner
> behind the wheel , or gremlins in the tires.
>
> jg
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:19 AM
>
>
> So... what you are saying is that using turcite a or b could prevent this:
>
> http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/jul/11/on-a-roll-at-the-track/?photos
>
> Asa Jay
> <there the day it happened>
>
>
> Quoting j g <notstock at yahoo.com>:
>
>> no porsche does not from the factory use it, they used hard rubber ,
>> I used it on some 911 race cars i have to get rid of the factory
>> rubber pieces that move too much and cause a 911 car to upset itself
>> in "power on" transition in mid corner and corner exit , and
>> actually found out about it in a similar application from a buddy of
>> mine at nasa in the bay area. they used it in bearing/bushings for
>> space applications, I used it for tooling and bed ways ,
>> after talking to my friend I tried it in that application in the 911
>> for my race cars and the rest is history . I replaced all the
>> rubber or aluminum with either heims or with turcite a, or b
>> depending on location , the turcite absorbes vibration and does not
>> squeek in the places I have used it.
>>
>> jg
>> .
>>
>> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
>> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:24 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear JG,
>>
>> Very, very interesting. You also mention the "cold flow" phenomenon
>> of Delrin. Anyway, the Turcite B material is used by Porsche and you
>> recommend it. Wow, who knew about the secret life of bushing
>> technology?! Thanks for the short course on high tech plastics.
>>
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Turcite is a composite material used to line and repair bed ways on
>> machine tools like mills. The concept came up when trying to get
>> bushings that would locate the control arm as well as be self
>> lubricating , allows a press fit and will not bind in an application
>> on a Porsche 911 rear trailing arm. The rear arm has this huge
>> rubber bushing that gets compressed in the rear control arm
>> attachment bracket and acts as both the bearing and locater for the
>> trailing arm as well as has to take the load from the torsion spring
>> that all 911 cars (air cooled) have . The use of aluminum caused
>> binding , delrin cold flows too much and the bushing/bearing goes
>> out of whack in very few runs , , tried lots of other materials and
>> then did a lot of research I had turcite b and c rods in my shop for
>> use as self lubricating busings in tooling so tried it and it was
>> better than any thing else from a wear , stability , press filt with
>> no cold flow and is compatable with
>> all lubricants and fluids common in a car.
>> Next it can be machined to tight tolerances and for the 911 trailing
>> arm joint that has complex motion it worked , I use turcite
>> extensively in any door slammer car when I want good bushings that
>> work as well as all metal but need no lubrication.
>> jg
>> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
>> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 9:42 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear JG,
>>
>> Ouch. My head hurts. First, there were stock rubber bushings. Then,
>> came Polyurethane. Recently, Delrin bushings appeared. Now, you've
>> added Turcite B?! Holy Cow.
>>
>> All I could find, that I could understand via Google, is it that it
>> resembles Teflon, but has a lower melting point and a (much) higher
>> buying price.
>>
>> How did you come upon Turcite B and decide to use it as a bushing material?
>>
>> Still curious about all the bushing options, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> quite frankly Turcite B makes the best control arm bushings I have
>> ever used .
>> they are if machined properly as good as a spherical ball in control
>> and wear .
>> jg
>>
>> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
>> To: cengles at cox.net
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:09 AM
>>
>>
>> Doc, Mark, & Ken,
>>
>> Save the chlorine for the pool and If they salt the roads in
>> Oklahoma you better go with
>> poly or rubber. ;-]>
>>
>>
>> Mad Dawg Antenucci
>> Team Pantera Racing
>> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
>> www.teampanteraracing.com
>>
>> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: Delrin control arm bushings
>> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:02 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Dennis, Mark and Ken,
>>
>> Thanks for responding to my dumb delrin questions. I did Google
>> it---finally (duh). It does seem to be quite a formidable plastic.
>> The only downside seems to be some real deterioration to acids and
>> to chlorine (salt on the roads?---something that is possible,but
>> *extremely* unlikely with a Pantera). I recall that the specs seemed
>> to say that it was *harder* than nylon. It also did *not* say
>> anything about my fuzzy recollection of "cold flow" deformation.
>> Also, just as Mark says, it can be *machined* to exactly what
>> (offset) you would like. Pretty cool stuff.
>>
>> So, to answer the question of about it "softness": it ain't soft and
>> is at least as hard as polyurethane, if not a bit harder.
>>
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>> ---- Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Doc,
>> The delrin offset bushings are machined so they are harder material
>> then poly but also don't need to be lubed. Dick made several
>> changes to suspension at the same time so you may want to talk to
>> Dick or others doing the same thing. All I can say is the bushings
>> he installed look new as the day he put them on 7-8 years ago.
>>
>> Mad Dawg Antenucci
>> Team Pantera Racing
>> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
>> www.teampanteraracing.com
>>
>> --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
>> To: "'Mad Dog Antenucci'" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:47 PM
>>
>>
>> Dear Dennis,
>>
>>
>> Can you recall why Dick recommended Delrin over Polyurethane
>> bushings? I am curious as to why he specified their use in the front
>> rather than on all four corners. Is Delrin softer than poly, but harder
>> than rubber???
>>
>>
>> Very curious, Chuck Engles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
>> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:59 AM
>> To: D421996 at aol.com; boyd casey
>> Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
>>
>> Good post Boyd....as a 3rd alternative Dick Drenske convinced me to go with
>> DELRIN front end bushings. I prefer them over rubber or poly
>>
>>
>> Mad Dawg Antenucci
>> Team Pantera Racing
>> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
>> www.teampanteraracing.com
>>
>> --- On Tue, 8/10/10, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
>> To: D421996 at aol.com
>> Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 9:19 AM
>>
>>
>> Some people (like Mike Drew) prefer the original rubber bushings. Others
>> (like me ) prefered to go with poly -graphite bushings.
>> The hardest part of the job is removing the old robber bushings. After years
>> of being in place the are extremely difficult to remove. There is a good
>> tech article in the "Your Pantera Place" web page, here is a direct link to
>> the article.
>> http://www.panteraplace.com/page82.htm The question of your ability to do
>> this in a home garage is subjective. If you have the right tools and
>> patience you can do it. Many people ( including me) used a torch to burn out
>> the old rubber bushings and then a sawz all to cut through the steel outer
>> sleeve Then I used a specially fabricated tool to hammer out the steel core
>> (that was now split by the saw). An way you slice it (pun intended) it is a
>> major PIA. There is an advertisement in the latest POCA Profiles magazine
>> from Pantera Parts connection (www.PanteraParts.com) They will supply
>> refurbished A-arms (glass beaded, Powder coated, and reinstall factory
>> bushings. For an extra $20.00 per a-arm they will install zerk fittings so
>> you can keep the bushings lubed. They charge $100.00 per A-arm or $720.00
>> for a complete set (NOT INCLUDING POLY BUSHINGS) but they will replace with
>> rubber bushings for that price. The New Poly bushings are available in
>> several different combinations of materials. They are simple to install
>> (they just twist together) and they are equally easy to remove. I would do
>> some research on the differences between the two different basic types and
>> decide which you want. I have a set of brand new rubber bushings I would be
>> willing to sell because I bought a complete suspension rebuild kit and did
>> not use the bushing if you decide you want rubber bushings let me know and I
>> will give you a good deal. Depending on how you plan to use your car will
>> probably effect your decision. If I remember correctly a complete set of
>> Poly bushings costs around $240.00. I bought mine from Dennis Quella.
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Boyd
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:58 AM, <D421996 at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What is the recommended bushings to use on a 74 GTS, and how difficult is
>>> it to do at home in your garage? Where is the best place to purchase?
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>
>
>
> --
> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
> ******************************************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
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