[DeTomaso] c & m blocks
GW
gow2 at rc-tech.net
Wed Aug 11 15:13:59 EDT 2010
All those would be names you put on them for conveniences.
wkooiman at earthlink.net wrote:
> Yes, I know there's technically no 400M. I used the M to help distinguish it from the C.
>
> By the same argument, though, you could say a 351M stroked to a 400 is a 400M - since you didn't buy it from Ford as an M. Ford didn't make a 408C, but everyone knows what you mean when you say 408C vs. 408W.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Aug 11, 2010 9:58 AM
>> To: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>> Cc: Pantera List <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] c & m blocks
>>
>> Yes... I got into an argument over this years ago when I had a 1979
>> Bronco with a 351M and put a Shelby Spearco turbo on it.
>>
>> To me, it was a 351M and when it was turned it into a 400 with a
>> different crankshaft and lower compression pistons, I was convinced it
>> was a 400M.
>>
>> I lost the argument....
>> :-)
>>
>> Wish I still had that truck.... Although it was a 'pull through' the
>> carb setup, I could get 22 lbs of boost out of it with water
>> injection.
>>
>> Trouble was... head gaskets suffered accordingly...
>>
>> FWIW,
>> Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 10:12, GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
>>
>>> By the way there is no "400M". Its a 400 or a 351M (modified, destroked
>>> 400).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> wkooiman at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agreed, but why would you do a 400M when you can do a 408C?
>>>>
>>>> Even better, run a Dart or SVO block and do a 9.5" deck Clevor.
>>>>
>>>> The 400M obviously has a better rod angle, and it isn't stroked to 400, so you don't need a stroker crank, rods, or pistons. But... does that make up for the motor mount mods, custom headers, intake spacers, and the difficulty in finding an FMX block (or running a 385 bellhousing)?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>>>>> Sent: Aug 10, 2010 10:29 PM
>>>>> To: JDeRyke at aol.com
>>>>> Cc: shawkins777 at comcast.net, detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] c & m blocks
>>>>>
>>>>> Uhm, what are you smoking? Comparing a 460 built with aluminum heads,
>>>>> intake to a stock 400 out of a truck?
>>>>>
>>>>> 351c weighs stock 550lbs.
>>>>> 400 STOCK out of a TRUCK weighs 575. 25lbs more.
>>>>> 460 STOCK weighs 720 freeking lbs! STOCK.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can't compare a stock truck engine to a hot rod aluminum intake/head
>>>>> engine. 500+ easy HP out of a 400 with damn good TQ through out the
>>>>> power curve and have been used many times. With aluminum heads, intake
>>>>> performance parts, etc they shed more then the extra 25lbs!
>>>>>
>>>>> Stripped down a 400 block IS A STROKED CLEVELAND!
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree the 460 is an amazing engine. I have seen them stroked to nearly
>>>>> 600 cubs making close to 900 streatable HP. But they are a bastard
>>>>> engine in a Pantera. I have seen people with 460's and they are all
>>>>> plagued by axle weakness. I have seen 2 break axles on launches form the
>>>>> poor angles required form moving the engines back. They just don't fit
>>>>> right.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 400 fits in the bay. Some header work, engine mount work but you
>>>>> don't have to redesign the whole damn engine bay. I love the 460 but it
>>>>> is an acheleis heal for those who have put one in. They still don't have
>>>>> the room to put the larger heads and such on they make the 900
>>>>> streatable HP.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a couple 400's out there. Mine will be soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JDeRyke at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue 10/08/10 6:05 PM , "Steve Hawkins" shawkins777 at comcast.net sent:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This not accurate information. Almost everything on a 351C will swap over
>>>>>>> to a 400 except the crank, rods, push rods and motor mounts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I said: you will replace everything in & on the (400) engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't say nothing off a real Cleveland would fit; I said nothing off
>>>>>> the 400 is useful to a performance build-up, except maybe the cast crank in
>>>>>> some cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it sound like you've done exactly that in your build-up, Steve. Not
>>>>>> sure whether the stock Pantera alternator/AC bracket will bolt straight onto
>>>>>> the taller 400 block or if it also needs an adaption. You can advise us once
>>>>>> you get the engine set in place.
>>>>>> FWIW, a 460 stroked to 510-550 cubic inches and mildly tuned with with
>>>>>> aluminum SVO heads, alum. intake w/Holley 850 and alum. waterpump puts out maybe
>>>>>> 650 bhp on 91 octane & weighs 600 lbs: 50 lbs more than a stock 351-C's 550
>>>>>> lbs, according to the Byars Bros who swapped a dozen or so of these. My
>>>>>> chart from Ford's website shows stock 351M and 400M engine ass'ys weighing 575
>>>>>> lbs; believable given the 1" taller cylinder decks. Cheers- J DeRyke
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