[DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
Asa Jay Laughton
asajay at asajay.com
Wed Aug 11 12:19:16 EDT 2010
So... what you are saying is that using turcite a or b could prevent this:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/jul/11/on-a-roll-at-the-track/?photos
Asa Jay
<there the day it happened>
Quoting j g <notstock at yahoo.com>:
> no porsche does not from the factory use it, they used hard rubber ,
> I used it on some 911 race cars i have to get rid of the factory
> rubber pieces that move too much and cause a 911 car to upset itself
> in "power on" transition in mid corner and corner exit , and
> actually found out about it in a similar application from a buddy of
> mine at nasa in the bay area. they used it in bearing/bushings for
> space applications, I used it for tooling and bed ways ,
> after talking to my friend I tried it in that application in the 911
> for my race cars and the rest is history . I replaced all the
> rubber or aluminum with either heims or with turcite a, or b
> depending on location , the turcite absorbes vibration and does not
> squeek in the places I have used it.
>
> jg
> .
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:24 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear JG,
>
> Very, very interesting. You also mention the "cold flow" phenomenon
> of Delrin. Anyway, the Turcite B material is used by Porsche and you
> recommend it. Wow, who knew about the secret life of bushing
> technology?! Thanks for the short course on high tech plastics.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>
> Turcite is a composite material used to line and repair bed ways on
> machine tools like mills. The concept came up when trying to get
> bushings that would locate the control arm as well as be self
> lubricating , allows a press fit and will not bind in an application
> on a Porsche 911 rear trailing arm. The rear arm has this huge
> rubber bushing that gets compressed in the rear control arm
> attachment bracket and acts as both the bearing and locater for the
> trailing arm as well as has to take the load from the torsion spring
> that all 911 cars (air cooled) have . The use of aluminum caused
> binding , delrin cold flows too much and the bushing/bearing goes
> out of whack in very few runs , , tried lots of other materials and
> then did a lot of research I had turcite b and c rods in my shop for
> use as self lubricating busings in tooling so tried it and it was
> better than any thing else from a wear , stability , press filt with
> no cold flow and is compatable with
> all lubricants and fluids common in a car.
> Next it can be machined to tight tolerances and for the 911 trailing
> arm joint that has complex motion it worked , I use turcite
> extensively in any door slammer car when I want good bushings that
> work as well as all metal but need no lubrication.
> jg
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: "j g" <notstock at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 9:42 AM
>
>
>
>
> Dear JG,
>
> Ouch. My head hurts. First, there were stock rubber bushings. Then,
> came Polyurethane. Recently, Delrin bushings appeared. Now, you've
> added Turcite B?! Holy Cow.
>
> All I could find, that I could understand via Google, is it that it
> resembles Teflon, but has a lower melting point and a (much) higher
> buying price.
>
> How did you come upon Turcite B and decide to use it as a bushing material?
>
> Still curious about all the bushing options, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> ---- j g <notstock at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>
> quite frankly Turcite B makes the best control arm bushings I have
> ever used .
> they are if machined properly as good as a spherical ball in control
> and wear .
> jg
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Delrin control arm bushings
> To: cengles at cox.net
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 8:09 AM
>
>
> Doc, Mark, & Ken,
>
> Save the chlorine for the pool and If they salt the roads in
> Oklahoma you better go with
> poly or rubber. ;-]>
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: cengles at cox.net <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: Delrin control arm bushings
> To: "Mad Dog Antenucci" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 6:02 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dennis, Mark and Ken,
>
> Thanks for responding to my dumb delrin questions. I did Google
> it---finally (duh). It does seem to be quite a formidable plastic.
> The only downside seems to be some real deterioration to acids and
> to chlorine (salt on the roads?---something that is possible,but
> *extremely* unlikely with a Pantera). I recall that the specs seemed
> to say that it was *harder* than nylon. It also did *not* say
> anything about my fuzzy recollection of "cold flow" deformation.
> Also, just as Mark says, it can be *machined* to exactly what
> (offset) you would like. Pretty cool stuff.
>
> So, to answer the question of about it "softness": it ain't soft and
> is at least as hard as polyurethane, if not a bit harder.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
> ---- Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Doc,
> The delrin offset bushings are machined so they are harder material
> then poly but also don't need to be lubed. Dick made several
> changes to suspension at the same time so you may want to talk to
> Dick or others doing the same thing. All I can say is the bushings
> he installed look new as the day he put them on 7-8 years ago.
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
> To: "'Mad Dog Antenucci'" <teampantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 3:47 PM
>
>
> Dear Dennis,
>
>
> Can you recall why Dick recommended Delrin over Polyurethane
> bushings? I am curious as to why he specified their use in the front
> rather than on all four corners. Is Delrin softer than poly, but harder
> than rubber???
>
>
> Very curious, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:59 AM
> To: D421996 at aol.com; boyd casey
> Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
>
> Good post Boyd....as a 3rd alternative Dick Drenske convinced me to go with
> DELRIN front end bushings. I prefer them over rubber or poly
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> --- On Tue, 8/10/10, boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] control arm bushings
> To: D421996 at aol.com
> Cc: Detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 9:19 AM
>
>
> Some people (like Mike Drew) prefer the original rubber bushings. Others
> (like me ) prefered to go with poly -graphite bushings.
> The hardest part of the job is removing the old robber bushings. After years
> of being in place the are extremely difficult to remove. There is a good
> tech article in the "Your Pantera Place" web page, here is a direct link to
> the article.
> http://www.panteraplace.com/page82.htm The question of your ability to do
> this in a home garage is subjective. If you have the right tools and
> patience you can do it. Many people ( including me) used a torch to burn out
> the old rubber bushings and then a sawz all to cut through the steel outer
> sleeve Then I used a specially fabricated tool to hammer out the steel core
> (that was now split by the saw). An way you slice it (pun intended) it is a
> major PIA. There is an advertisement in the latest POCA Profiles magazine
> from Pantera Parts connection (www.PanteraParts.com) They will supply
> refurbished A-arms (glass beaded, Powder coated, and reinstall factory
> bushings. For an extra $20.00 per a-arm they will install zerk fittings so
> you can keep the bushings lubed. They charge $100.00 per A-arm or $720.00
> for a complete set (NOT INCLUDING POLY BUSHINGS) but they will replace with
> rubber bushings for that price. The New Poly bushings are available in
> several different combinations of materials. They are simple to install
> (they just twist together) and they are equally easy to remove. I would do
> some research on the differences between the two different basic types and
> decide which you want. I have a set of brand new rubber bushings I would be
> willing to sell because I bought a complete suspension rebuild kit and did
> not use the bushing if you decide you want rubber bushings let me know and I
> will give you a good deal. Depending on how you plan to use your car will
> probably effect your decision. If I remember correctly a complete set of
> Poly bushings costs around $240.00. I bought mine from Dennis Quella.
> Good Luck,
>
> Boyd
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:58 AM, <D421996 at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> What is the recommended bushings to use on a 74 GTS, and how difficult is
>> it to do at home in your garage? Where is the best place to purchase?
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--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
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