[DeTomaso] c & m blocks
GW
gow2 at rc-tech.net
Wed Aug 11 10:45:40 EDT 2010
Point being the block itself is already 400ci without touching it. Mine
is stroked to 434. There was talk of some one building a lager stroker
for it but that has not materialized.
As far as the bellhousing, like I posted before, Quicktime has a
bellhousing but it is made for the GT40 so it is inverted. If you
re-drill it and dial it in you will have an engine where replacement
cores are $50 anywhere. I think the FMX is a waste. It's an elusive
block and if you damage tough finding another one.
Like I said before, the engine mounts, headers and rest of it is minimal
if you do that sort of thing. If you buy your stuff from Autozone then
it's not as doable but a 460 is by far worse. This was my post form a
couple days ago:
There are some obstacles. You ability to overcome the obstacles will
help YOU device if it is for you or not. Obviously some small issues
ignored here. If you can deal with the large issues, you can certainly
deal with the small ones. If you are a car guy/craftsman you can over
come these obstacles. If you abilities stop at what you can buy from
Autozone then no.
While a 400 or 351m (modified from 400 but same block) has many things
in common with a Cleveland there are some differences.
Deck Height is 1 inch taller. This will likely mean new headers. It will
pull the water the water connection up higher and some things will be
tighter. There is clearance at the rear of the heads in the bay but it
does get tighter. Standard build stuff for custom cars.
Limited number of Ford intakes so to use Cleveland intakes you will need
spacer which are readily available. I am using spacer for now but I am
welding up Webber intake from scratch. You can see the spacers here:
http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/ts/d2.jpg
Motor mounts. One side of the 400 has the embossment for the Cleveland
motor mount but is not drilled. You could drill and tap one side and fab
a new motor mount for the other side. I just built new motor mounts.
Easy fab. I can help guide you if that's your plan. You can see mine
behind the lower mounts powder coated here ready for assembly:
http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/rollbar/pc1.jpg
QuickTime makes a bell housing 400-ZF with one problem. Bolt holes are
inverted. You can re-drill the holes but you must check shaft alignment!
If you find a 400FMX block it will fit a Cleveland bell housing. The
beauty of using the quicktime is 400 blocks are a dime a dozen!!!! The
quicktime will also mean a different throw out set up, or possibly a HTOB.
Those are the biggies. Everything else secondary to those items. I think
the 400 is a dream. I wouldn't think of a mod motor, a modern motor or
something small and complicated. With aluminum heads, intake mine is
stroked to 434 CI at about the same weight as the Cleveland was. The
engine was built for low rpm, TQ and durability. Dynoed 500hp, 534lbs
tq. Made 450lbs of tq at 2000 rpm. Limiting it to 5,000rpm should do
away with many long term problems and should last for a long time.
There is NO substitute for cubic inches!!
A couple guys have done this. All doable.
http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/ladder/lad10.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/InPrimmer.jpg
http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/index.htm
Gary
wkooiman at earthlink.net wrote:
> Agreed, but why would you do a 400M when you can do a 408C?
>
> Even better, run a Dart or SVO block and do a 9.5" deck Clevor.
>
> The 400M obviously has a better rod angle, and it isn't stroked to 400, so you don't need a stroker crank, rods, or pistons. But... does that make up for the motor mount mods, custom headers, intake spacers, and the difficulty in finding an FMX block (or running a 385 bellhousing)?
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>> Sent: Aug 10, 2010 10:29 PM
>> To: JDeRyke at aol.com
>> Cc: shawkins777 at comcast.net, detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] c & m blocks
>>
>> Uhm, what are you smoking? Comparing a 460 built with aluminum heads,
>> intake to a stock 400 out of a truck?
>>
>> 351c weighs stock 550lbs.
>> 400 STOCK out of a TRUCK weighs 575. 25lbs more.
>> 460 STOCK weighs 720 freeking lbs! STOCK.
>>
>> You can't compare a stock truck engine to a hot rod aluminum intake/head
>> engine. 500+ easy HP out of a 400 with damn good TQ through out the
>> power curve and have been used many times. With aluminum heads, intake
>> performance parts, etc they shed more then the extra 25lbs!
>>
>> Stripped down a 400 block IS A STROKED CLEVELAND!
>>
>> I agree the 460 is an amazing engine. I have seen them stroked to nearly
>> 600 cubs making close to 900 streatable HP. But they are a bastard
>> engine in a Pantera. I have seen people with 460's and they are all
>> plagued by axle weakness. I have seen 2 break axles on launches form the
>> poor angles required form moving the engines back. They just don't fit
>> right.
>>
>> The 400 fits in the bay. Some header work, engine mount work but you
>> don't have to redesign the whole damn engine bay. I love the 460 but it
>> is an acheleis heal for those who have put one in. They still don't have
>> the room to put the larger heads and such on they make the 900
>> streatable HP.
>>
>> There are a couple 400's out there. Mine will be soon.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JDeRyke at aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue 10/08/10 6:05 PM , "Steve Hawkins" shawkins777 at comcast.net sent:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This not accurate information. Almost everything on a 351C will swap over
>>>> to a 400 except the crank, rods, push rods and motor mounts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What I said: you will replace everything in & on the (400) engine.
>>>
>>> I didn't say nothing off a real Cleveland would fit; I said nothing off
>>> the 400 is useful to a performance build-up, except maybe the cast crank in
>>> some cases.
>>>
>>> And it sound like you've done exactly that in your build-up, Steve. Not
>>> sure whether the stock Pantera alternator/AC bracket will bolt straight onto
>>> the taller 400 block or if it also needs an adaption. You can advise us once
>>> you get the engine set in place.
>>> FWIW, a 460 stroked to 510-550 cubic inches and mildly tuned with with
>>> aluminum SVO heads, alum. intake w/Holley 850 and alum. waterpump puts out maybe
>>> 650 bhp on 91 octane & weighs 600 lbs: 50 lbs more than a stock 351-C's 550
>>> lbs, according to the Byars Bros who swapped a dozen or so of these. My
>>> chart from Ford's website shows stock 351M and 400M engine ass'ys weighing 575
>>> lbs; believable given the 1" taller cylinder decks. Cheers- J DeRyke
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>
>
>
>
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list