[DeTomaso] [Fwd: Re: Air question resolved, sorta 0- VW]

Dave Londry davel at emspace.com
Wed Aug 4 01:44:16 EDT 2010


And they all burned #4 exhaust valve on the Sacramento-Vegas stretch.
dave

michael at michaelshortt.com wrote:
> Oil coolers and fins which increase surface area for radiant cooling. No V8
> power, boxer design, you need turbos and intercoolers for same level
> performance as stock Pantera .  All things being equal, the air cooled
> 350-400 HP is going to cost more per pony to achieve.  Michael Shortt
>
> On Aug 3, 2010 10:41 PM, "Bill Lewis" <lotus0005 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> How many thousands of VW's have rear-end engines and have no over-heating
> problems.  Smaller, yes, but no radiator, etc.  Any thing to learn from the
> Deutschlanders?
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:07:15 -0600
>> From: gow2 at rc-tech.net
>> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
>> CC: michael at michaelshortt.com; mbefthomas at comcast.net;
>>     
> detomaso at realbig.com
>   
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
>>
>> If the scoop goes directly to the carb, the aerodynamics inside the
>> engine bay forcing air out will be eliminated.
>>
>> I built a belly pan but it stops just short of the engine:
>>
>> http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/panttransam/1905/bp/bpd.jpg
>>
>> All air in the front I am directing out of the hood; no air directed
>> under the car:
>>
>> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/hood/hood.htm
>>
>> Air dam is scratch built:
>>
>> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/airdam/ad.htm
>>
>> It's beginning to come together now:
>>
>> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/paint1/paint.htm
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Taphorn wrote:
>>     
>>> Good point and I should have clarified my message.
>>>
>>> I intend to seal the area around each side opening with a cone filter
>>>       
> inside.  Then connect the air filters to the carb using 4" tubing.
>   
>>> Summit sells a Spectre part that is able to be customized that may even
>>>       
> work.  Although, you would still need to fab the sealed air cleaner boxes.
> It would be similar to this, yet custom made for the Pantera.
>   
>>> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-252D/
>>>
>>> With this done, next will be an aluminum belly pan under the engine
>>>       
> area.  However, that is another chapter.
>   
>>> JT
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: Rob Dumoulin
>>>   To: John Taphorn
>>>   Cc: Mike Thomas ; michael at michaelshortt.com ; pantera list
>>>   Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:34 AM
>>>   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
>>>
>>>
>>>   In a private response, Gudmund below stated that hot air was exiting
>>>       
> his vents at 50-60 mph.  If that is so, there is a low pressure area pulling
> engine air out like a venturi as the air passes along the side of the car.
>  Assuming one put a fairly sealed cold air intake in this area, it would
> actually be starving the engine of air rather than feeding it.
>   
>>>   Does anybody know if there is a low pressure under the stock deck
>>>       
> around the air cleaner with the engine cover installed?  I can't imagine the
> designers would let that happen, but it would deter me from punching a hole
> through my engine cover and raising the air filter through it.
>   
>>>   > I have installed those small scopes
>>>   > in the side vindow.They look great and are weary easy to
>>>   > install. I was just on a group tour to France. There I got
>>>   > told there are no air going in those scoops but hot air
>>>   > coming out. I thought that was strange so I checked on the
>>>   > way back. Held my hand out the window in front of the scope
>>>   > and right enough there was hot air coming out going 50 - 60
>>>   > mph. But steel look good.
>>>   > Best regards     Gudmund
>>>   > Froiland
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:20 AM, John Taphorn <
>>>       
> jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
>   
>>>     I intend to eventually install a system on my GT5 to draw air in
>>>       
> through the side windows/vents.  My aim is to have a source of cooler denser
> air for the engine.  The current flow pattern has us extracting air from the
> engine bay that is heated as it passes by the headers first.
>   
>>>     I have listened to the debate for years about the 4" ear requirement
>>>       
> on the side of the car.  The advocates say it is necessary for the ram air
> effect. That may be so, however, I am not seeking to ram air into the
> carburetor. We certainly are not benefiting from ram air in the stock
> configuration, so I don't see why it is postulated as a requirement when
> ever someone inquires about ingesting air from the side.
>   
>>>     I am confident that if the intakes tract is extended to an opening
>>>       
> in the side gill/window even without an ear, the engine will suck in all the
> cooler denser air that it needs despite the theoretical boundary layer.
>  Lord knows, it certainly rushes into my car when I roll down the driver's
> window without the benefit of anything, like an intake stroke, creating a
> lower vacuum.
>   
>>>     JT
>>>
>>>
>>>     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Thomas" <
>>>       
> mbefthomas at comcast.net>
>   
>>>     To: "'Rob Dumoulin'" <rob at dumoulins.net>; <michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>       
>>>     Cc: "'pantera list'" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>     Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:21 PM
>>>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       Remember that there has been quite a number of strings regarding
>>>       
> the merits
>   
>>>       of side scoops and whether they really do any good unless they
>>>       
> stick out far
>   
>>>       enough to extend beyond the boundary layer created by the car.  If
>>>       
> I recall
>   
>>>       the figure was 6" to 8" out from the side of the car to actually
>>>       
> "scoop"
>   
>>>       some air.  'Like Michael said, it's your car, but I sure wouldn't
>>>       
> want mine
>   
>>>       looking like Dumbo on wheels . . .
>>>
>>>       Something else I would think about too: if your car is an early
>>>       
> '71, I
>   
>>>       assume it has all the bright work on it (bumpers, mirrors, window
>>>       
> trim,
>   
>>>       etc.).  I recently saw an ad on EBay for an early '71 with steel
>>>       
> group IV
>   
>>>       flares, center exhaust from 180's, etc, and somehow all that just
>>>       
> didn't
>   
>>>       look right on a chrome bumpered car, having seen most Grp IV
>>>       
> clones with
>   
>>>       bumpers off or all trim blacked out.
>>>
>>>       K, that's my .02.
>>>
>>>       Mike Thomas
>>>
>>>       -----Original Message-----
>>>       From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
>>>       
> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
>   
>>>       Behalf Of Rob Dumoulin
>>>       Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:56 PM
>>>       To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>       Cc: pantera list
>>>       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
>>>
>>>       Thanks, Mike.  Why do I get the feeling you are preparing for a
>>>       
> career in
>   
>>>       politics with those two answers?  Seriously though, I like the
>>>       
> hood vent
>   
>>>       look, want to cut down on under car air pressure while gaining
>>>       
> ducts for
>   
>>>       brake air, and want a closed box cold air system.  I also
>>>       
> considered cutting
>   
>>>       a hole in my engine cover and placing the K&N in colder air above
>>>       
> it.  I am
>   
>>>       about function on just about everything on the car except the hood
>>>       
> vents.
>   
>>>
>>>         On Aug 2, 2010 8:59 PM, "Rob Dumoulin" <rob at dumoulins.net>
>>>       
> wrote:
>   
>>>
>>>         Guys, working out of state is killing my restoration plans and
>>>       
> spare time.
>   
>>>          I hoped to be farthe...
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>   Rob DuMoulin
>>>   904.476.8744
>>>   rob at dumoulins.net
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-- 
Dave Londry
Embedded Spaces Inc. (ESI)
davel at emspace.com

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