[DeTomaso] Air question resolved, sorta 0- VW

Tue Aug 3 22:53:17 EDT 2010

Oil coolers and fins which increase surface area for radiant cooling. No V8
power, boxer design, you need turbos and intercoolers for same level
performance as stock Pantera .  All things being equal, the air cooled
350-400 HP is going to cost more per pony to achieve.  Michael Shortt

On Aug 3, 2010 10:41 PM, "Bill Lewis" <lotus0005 at hotmail.com> wrote:

How many thousands of VW's have rear-end engines and have no over-heating
problems.  Smaller, yes, but no radiator, etc.  Any thing to learn from the
Deutschlanders?

> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:07:15 -0600
> From: gow2 at rc-tech.net
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> CC: michael at michaelshortt.com; mbefthomas at comcast.net;
detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
>
> If the scoop goes directly to the carb, the aerodynamics inside the
> engine bay forcing air out will be eliminated.
>
> I built a belly pan but it stops just short of the engine:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/cars2/panttransam/1905/bp/bpd.jpg
>
> All air in the front I am directing out of the hood; no air directed
> under the car:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/hood/hood.htm
>
> Air dam is scratch built:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/airdam/ad.htm
>
> It's beginning to come together now:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/pantera1/paint1/paint.htm
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> John Taphorn wrote:
> > Good point and I should have clarified my message.
> >
> > I intend to seal the area around each side opening with a cone filter
inside.  Then connect the air filters to the carb using 4" tubing.
> >
> > Summit sells a Spectre part that is able to be customized that may even
work.  Although, you would still need to fab the sealed air cleaner boxes.
It would be similar to this, yet custom made for the Pantera.
> >
> > http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-252D/
> >
> > With this done, next will be an aluminum belly pan under the engine
area.  However, that is another chapter.
> >
> > JT
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Rob Dumoulin
> >   To: John Taphorn
> >   Cc: Mike Thomas ; michael at michaelshortt.com ; pantera list
> >   Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:34 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
> >
> >
> >   In a private response, Gudmund below stated that hot air was exiting
his vents at 50-60 mph.  If that is so, there is a low pressure area pulling
engine air out like a venturi as the air passes along the side of the car.
 Assuming one put a fairly sealed cold air intake in this area, it would
actually be starving the engine of air rather than feeding it.
> >
> >
> >   Does anybody know if there is a low pressure under the stock deck
around the air cleaner with the engine cover installed?  I can't imagine the
designers would let that happen, but it would deter me from punching a hole
through my engine cover and raising the air filter through it.
> >
> >
> >
> >   > I have installed those small scopes
> >   > in the side vindow.They look great and are weary easy to
> >   > install. I was just on a group tour to France. There I got
> >   > told there are no air going in those scoops but hot air
> >   > coming out. I thought that was strange so I checked on the
> >   > way back. Held my hand out the window in front of the scope
> >   > and right enough there was hot air coming out going 50 - 60
> >   > mph. But steel look good.
> >   > Best regards     Gudmund
> >   > Froiland
> >
> >
> >   On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 8:20 AM, John Taphorn <
jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
> >
> >     I intend to eventually install a system on my GT5 to draw air in
through the side windows/vents.  My aim is to have a source of cooler denser
air for the engine.  The current flow pattern has us extracting air from the
engine bay that is heated as it passes by the headers first.
> >
> >     I have listened to the debate for years about the 4" ear requirement
on the side of the car.  The advocates say it is necessary for the ram air
effect. That may be so, however, I am not seeking to ram air into the
carburetor. We certainly are not benefiting from ram air in the stock
configuration, so I don't see why it is postulated as a requirement when
ever someone inquires about ingesting air from the side.
> >
> >     I am confident that if the intakes tract is extended to an opening
in the side gill/window even without an ear, the engine will suck in all the
cooler denser air that it needs despite the theoretical boundary layer.
 Lord knows, it certainly rushes into my car when I roll down the driver's
window without the benefit of anything, like an intake stroke, creating a
lower vacuum.
> >
> >     JT
> >
> >
> >     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Thomas" <
mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> >     To: "'Rob Dumoulin'" <rob at dumoulins.net>; <michael at michaelshortt.com
>
> >     Cc: "'pantera list'" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> >     Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:21 PM
> >     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
> >
> >
> >
> >       Remember that there has been quite a number of strings regarding
the merits
> >       of side scoops and whether they really do any good unless they
stick out far
> >       enough to extend beyond the boundary layer created by the car.  If
I recall
> >       the figure was 6" to 8" out from the side of the car to actually
"scoop"
> >       some air.  'Like Michael said, it's your car, but I sure wouldn't
want mine
> >       looking like Dumbo on wheels . . .
> >
> >       Something else I would think about too: if your car is an early
'71, I
> >       assume it has all the bright work on it (bumpers, mirrors, window
trim,
> >       etc.).  I recently saw an ad on EBay for an early '71 with steel
group IV
> >       flares, center exhaust from 180's, etc, and somehow all that just
didn't
> >       look right on a chrome bumpered car, having seen most Grp IV
clones with
> >       bumpers off or all trim blacked out.
> >
> >       K, that's my .02.
> >
> >       Mike Thomas
> >
> >       -----Original Message-----
> >       From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> >       Behalf Of Rob Dumoulin
> >       Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:56 PM
> >       To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> >       Cc: pantera list
> >       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] I've got to get going on my restoration
> >
> >       Thanks, Mike.  Why do I get the feeling you are preparing for a
career in
> >       politics with those two answers?  Seriously though, I like the
hood vent
> >       look, want to cut down on under car air pressure while gaining
ducts for
> >       brake air, and want a closed box cold air system.  I also
considered cutting
> >       a hole in my engine cover and placing the K&N in colder air above
it.  I am
> >       about function on just about everything on the car except the hood
vents.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         On Aug 2, 2010 8:59 PM, "Rob Dumoulin" <rob at dumoulins.net>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         Guys, working out of state is killing my restoration plans and
spare time.
> >          I hoped to be farthe...
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >   --
> >   Rob DuMoulin
> >   904.476.8744
> >   rob at dumoulins.net
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