[DeTomaso] # of surviving cars
michael@michaelshortt.com
michaelsavga at gmail.com
Tue Apr 20 17:07:24 EDT 2010
I agree, once a DPR was started, it would become exactly what you
described. Those willing to go back further could have that option I think,
I know that my car came from the seller in FL and I know that he bought it
from Hall Pantera, anything more than that would have to be found at Hall or
by the VIN at the DMV ( is there a non FBI, CIA, NSA way to do a 50 state
search by VIN records?)
As far as modifications, etc. You're 100% right, most of us don't care, it's
just about its birth condition, date of build, specs, options, colors, maybe
the original dealership that sold it would be cool info., but the history
for each would have to go back only as far as could be proven, no guesses or
assumptions.
It has to start some where and some time, why not now?
Michael Shortt
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:59 PM, GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
>
> A couple points, first I think the Pantera group differs a little in that;
> as Ken said we often (with exception) don't care about originality and we
> don't rate cars into "But mine is a C5, But mine is a C6 dated....etc".
>
> At the same time the history of these cars often does not follow into the
> nice little predispositioned package we like it to be. For example, if you
> follow the date codes in debriefing the VIN often it's flat out wrong for a
> number of reasons. It is a general thing. When people go out and gather info
> on 3000 cars making assumptions the information is meaningless and often is
> the source of misinformation which is worse then doing nothing.
>
> There are simple questions which we would like to know about our cars. The
> older they are the muddier the trail gets; especially with muddy guesses and
> misinformation.
>
> As I said there has to be verified info and contributed info which can
> provide a bread trail to some extent but not specifically verified. This
> info should come from an owner and not gathered from the internet. It should
> give you a point to contact previous owners even to the extent of say 3
> owners ago in case the last owner can not be contacted. Stuff like that. In
> restoring #1905 I have uncovered a 1000questions but no bread trail. Data in
> a blog with guessed info don't help. Some of this stuff should only be
> available to special situations and current owners. As new owners take over,
> they should be able to continue the info trail.
>
> As far a pedigree I don't think we would see it as much that as much a car
> with obtainable history. Who owned it, where did it come from, what is
> different, how was it changed, by whom, etc.
>
> It also has the advantage of theft recovery. I have often thought an
> organizational based registry should also have a page dedicated to all know
> Pantera thefts.
>
>
> G
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> michael at michaelshortt.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Mark McWhinney <msm at portata.com <mailto:
>> msm at portata.com>> wrote:
>>
>> A few notes.
>>
>> * POCA would very much like to have a full registry, however the time
>> and effort to do so are huge. A while back, Chuck estimated that
>> he had
>> put in over 2,000 hours on the registry to collect info, clean it up,
>> get pictures, verify the info, etc. There is also a lot of time
>> to hook
>> up old info with new info to form a timeline of ownership, mods, and
>> events. Of course, there is time and effort to build and maintain the
>> software and general website work. For the work that I have seen
>> him do,
>> I am sure that it is well beyond 2,000 hours at this point (that's the
>> equivalent of working fulltime for more a year.)
>>
>> I think Chuck has done a wonderful thing with his site.
>> I don't think I implied anything else, what i siad was that you
>> can't have it accessible and private at the same time
>> and a password site seems to be the only way you can do it.
>>
>>
>> * We have talked to Chuck about incorporating his registry into
>> POCA and
>> move it onto the POCA website, but he has chosen to keep things as is.
>>
>> The information gathering process is very time consuming and laborious,
>> Chuck should be commended for doing the work.
>>
>>
>> * Chuck has gone to great lengths to keep data private. He does not
>> release owner info without first contacting the owner for
>> permission to
>> release. (I have noticed that people on this forum to tend to post
>> other people's contact info publically, which makes me cringe.)
>>
>> * Chuck has around 3,000 cars in the registry, so it has the
>> majority of
>> the surviving cars.
>>
>> That's nice to know and I think probably 90% of the cars that are left
>> and I'd bet that of those 3,000
>> that 50% are not road worthy.
>>
>>
>> * Peter Havlik has assembled a registry of the late model
>> Panteras, VINs
>> 9000 through 9641. He sent me a CD with an update which I will load
>> onto the POCA website shortly.
>>
>> So Mark, why don't you and the POCA people meet with Chuck in the
>> middle,
>> as a mediator ( yes I do that too ) it's all about seeing why he wantsts
>> what he wants and
>> why you want what you (POCA ) want.
>> I'm sure that if overtures were made to Chuck that he would respond
>> to a business proposition whereby he is compensated for his efforts as a
>> percentage
>> of a Proper Registration Effort with Official Documentation.
>> If we all thought a proper "Detomaso Pantera Registry" hereinafter "DPR"
>> document
>> added value to a car, then it simply would.
>> The first question a future buyer would ask, Does your car have a DPR
>> Certificate?
>> As far as what the certificate implies is up to each individual, I
>> understand how Ken G can think what he wrote, we all have the same thoughts,
>> but these are because of bad experiences with other clubs where SOME
>> members are pricks, we have one or two of those too. All marques do.
>> Posuers, assholes and jerk offs. Check book and Trust fund babies and
>> people who don't look like me or use the wrong hand to write with or
>> have red Panteras instead of Yellow Panteras ( the only REAL Pantera ).
>> But what I'm putting out there is that if Chuck could use his list to
>> market the DPR and when you join it then becomes POCA property,
>> then EVERYBODY wins. If the DPR certificate is 75.00, Fine, Pay Chuck
>> 37.50 and keep 37.50, use 5.00 to print a neato Document ( suitable for
>> framing ) and 15.00
>> to enter the info into a website and put the 10.00 difference in the
>> general fund. Everybody wins and if Chuck can get 3,000
>> people to sign up, he makes $112,500 for his one year of work on the
>> project, everybody wins!
>> If you and I think the DPR certificate is worth 75.00, then it is, I know
>> one thing for sure, when I sell the car, if ever! I'll make my $75.00 back
>> and do my best to tell the buyer that buying a car WITHOUT a DPR is a BAD
>> Idea and he should reconsider any purchase that doesn't have one.
>> as far as it being a separate club, and dealing with snobs, life is full
>> of that in everything we do, the real difference to me is that the Pantera
>> Community is different, it always has been and it always will be.
>> Forgive me for my words, this is not a cars for Pu^^%$# and country club
>> golfers ( and IMHO not having such realization is what hindered the car to
>> start with ,
>> marketing a Pantera next to a Town Car and Continental, WTF were they
>> thinking ?) Hello, old Dr. Smith and Mrs. Old Dr. Smith, here is our 8,000
>> Luxo barge that you are used to buying OR
>> we have this sporty car...shhhh, you wouldn't like it....now this one has
>> a padded vinyl roof...PLEEEEEEEZE )
>> again, just my Opinion, but if I could buy a certificate from the POCA
>> that was a REAL "DPR" document that had official weight and feel,and was
>> backed up with a current website
>> accessible by owners only, I'dl buy it right now!
>> So have you offered Chuck 112,500 or just wanted his work for FREE,
>> Chuck, have you actually considered selling the work product to help the
>> brand survive?
>> The answer is in the middle somewhere, the effort is working hard to find
>> exactly where and then doing it.
>> Michael Shortt
>>
>>
>> See more info about Pantera registries at
>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/cl/reg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com>
>> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> <mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com>]
>> On Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
>> <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:26 PM
>> To: GW
>> Cc: JDeRyke at aol.com <mailto:JDeRyke at aol.com>; detomaso at realbig.com
>> <mailto:detomaso at realbig.com>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] # of surviving cars
>>
>> I think most people agree with you.
>>
>> If the POCA had a clue, they would realize that this could be a small
>> profit
>> center for Official Documentation and Registration,
>> But considering my experience with them just keeping membership
>> records
>> and
>> billing straight, well that's a lot to hope for.
>> I know that the players have changed and I know there are not
>> enough of
>> us
>> to hire full time employees like the Mustang or Shelby
>> folks.
>> But if I could get an official looking document that verified the
>> car's
>> build date, original colors, specs, etc. and this became a part of a
>> National Registry
>> and an ADDED Value to MY Carr because I had it ( like Bloomington, the
>> GTO
>> registry, Cobras or something ) then it would be worth the 50.00 to
>> 100.00
>> it should cost to
>> establish such a list.
>>
>> It will only work if there is an incentive to make it happen, the
>> incentive
>> has to be CASH,
>> or private Brazilian Girls attention ( so I'm told ) and since
>> pandering
>> is
>> illegal, looks like Cash wins out.
>>
>> The documentation will only be worth anything if we all say it's worth
>> something, but as we all know, the Pantera community
>> is made up of rebels, miscreants and hell raisers ( thus the appeal of
>> the
>> car and probably why we all get along on this forum )
>> and not "Joiners".
>> This is one of the few groups that don't applaud the increased
>> values of
>> cars, but derides those cars as "not being worth that much"
>> as has been said," I have seen the enemy and it is US"
>>
>> We have to be better cheerleaders for each other, build up the brand
>> value
>> and start to account for ourselves
>> better if we are going to build up the value of these cars.
>>
>> A registry is one way to fast track the effort and POCA should in my
>> opinion take the lead in such an endeavor.
>>
>> all of course in just my opinion,
>>
>> Michael Shortt
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:08 PM, GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net
>> <mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net>> wrote:
>>
>> > I would also like to see it backed by a group such as POCA. In doing
>> so it
>> > would have to have strict rules or guidelines as to what content is
>> verified
>> > and to perhaps to what level of verification. Anything less would
>> amount to
>> > Wikipedea and only muddy the waters of what is true which is why
>> most
>> will
>> > not participate in anything less..
>> >
>> >
>> > G
>> >
>> >
>> > michael at michaelshortt.com <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> All,
>> >> Here's the problem and one that we all have issues with to some
>> degree or
>> >> another.
>> >> Who gets to see the registry and what information gets shared?
>> >> Name of Owner
>> >> Email of Owner
>> >> Date of Acquisition
>> >> VIN of Car
>> >> Photos of Car
>> >> City of Car
>> >> That's what I'm willing to share,
>> >> where it lives, stays parked or stored, etc.
>> >> isn't going to be shared with strangers.
>> >> Mailing me a bunch of crap isn't going to happen.
>> >> Asking how much I paid isn't going to happen.
>> >> So how can we establish a sight that is user controlled, yet
>> maintainable
>> >> and linked to all the others?
>> >> I own the domain "detomasopanteraregistry.com
>> <http://detomasopanteraregistry.com/> <
>> >> http://detomasopanteraregistry.com
>>
>> <http://detomasopanteraregistry.com/>>" and have for years,
>> >>
>> >> when a reasonable and viable answer to the above is presented,
>> I'd be
>> >> happy
>> >> to allow the domain name use for such a purpose.
>> >> It should not be a for profit deal.
>> >> I know of no other current idea aside from the effort of
>> Chuck's (
>> which
>> >> requires a password )
>> >> which is good for privacy but also a PIA, clearly you can't have it
>> both
>> >> ways.
>> >> One idea may be a group effort on a social networking site
>> >> with everyone creating a page for their car and linking all these
>> pages
>> >> together as friends...but it requires each owner and when you add
>> people
>> >> you always add problems.
>> >> Can the registry software of Shelby or others be licensed?
>> >> Michael Shortt
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:07 PM, <JDeRyke at aol.com
>> <mailto:JDeRyke at aol.com> <mailto:
>>
>> >> JDeRyke at aol.com <mailto:JDeRyke at aol.com>>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 4/20/10 12:45:46 AM, gow2 at rc-tech.net
>> <mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>> >> <mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net <mailto:gow2 at rc-tech.net>> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > When POCA or some other club gets involved and makes a real
>> official
>> >> > effort like the way the Corvettes and other groups have, it
>> >> would make a
>> >> > difference.
>> >> >
>> >> Agreed; want to volunteer to form a group to do one? That's the
>> main
>> >> problem, Bill- everyone wants access to such a registry but
>> no one
>> >> wants to spend
>> >> the years it takes to compile one. Which is a moving target
>> anyway
>> >> since
>> >> details change daily due to sales, accidents, owner upgrades
>> etc.
>> >> And POCA
>> >> typically only offers encouragement- they're watching their
>> >> pennies pretty
>> >> carefully these days. Finally, most good records reside in
>> vendors
>> >> files, which
>> >> they guard pretty carefully. Good luck- J DeRyke
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>> >> --
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Michael L. Shortt
>> >> Savannah, Georgia
>> >> www.michaelshortt.com <http://www.michaelshortt.com/>
>> <http://www.michaelshortt.com <http://www.michaelshortt.com/>>
>>
>> >> michael at michaelshortt.com <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>>
>>
>> >>
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>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com <http://www.michaelshortt.com/>
>> michael at michaelshortt.com <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> 912-232-9390
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>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com <http://www.michaelshortt.com>
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www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
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