[DeTomaso] Hall Headers
wkooiman at earthlink.net
wkooiman at earthlink.net
Tue Apr 6 20:22:37 EDT 2010
My opinion - take it for what it's worth - remember, my opinion is free...
3-10hp isn't worth it. You will never feel 10hp - unless you are in a Honda Insight and you normally only make 50hp ;-)
If you're making 300hp, 10hp is rounding error. Okay, maybe not if you are in a race car, but come on. Most of us are arm-chair heroes.
If it were me, I wouldn't mess with yet another part to leak, crack, etc., for a lousy 10hp.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 6, 2010 11:03 AM
>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hall Headers
>
>> Dan Jones'Great 351C Dyno project recently tested a set of the bronze
>> Port Stingers from MPG ( I believe that's right).
>
>That is correct.
>
>> IIRC, they were good for an honest 5-6 horsepower, but far, far less
>> than 20 hp.
>
>The peak HP difference was only 3 HP but the maximum difference was
>14.6 HP at 4500 RPM. Understand that peak numbers are not important.
>It's the area under the curve between shift points that is important.
>The Stinger inserts made a meaningful improvement across most of our
>tested RPM range:
>
>Port Plate Test
>Same setup as pull number 10 with the unported iron 4V heads, Strip
>Dominator HVH intake setup and Pantera headers. The Pantera headers
>come straight out from the cylinder head, whereas the Mustang Hooker
>long tube headers turn downward more quickly. In this case, the
>exhaust port insert seems to help.
>
>Holley Strip Dominator with HVH Run 10
>950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
>For the 10th pull of the day we switched back to the Holley Strip Dominator
>and HVH spacer which was the best combination tested on the unported iron
>heads previously. We found it to be virtually identical to our previous
>numbers with the Pantera headers.
>
>Without Stinger Exhaust Inserts
>RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
>4000 278.7 362.9
>4100 291.9 370.3
>4200 294.8 369.3
>4300 301.1 368.1
>4400 308.9 369.0
>4500 319.2 372.6
>4600 331.7 378.5
>4700 345.3 385.5
>4800 356.9 390.1
>4900 363.5 389.9
>5000 372.8 390.4
>5100 378.2 389.6
>5200 382.4 386.5
>5300 389.9 386.4
>5400 396.7 385.9
>5500 403.1 384.9
>5600 407.6 382.3
>5700 408.0 375.7
>5800 405.9 367.4
>5900 398.5 355.2
>6000 395.4 346.2
>6100 399.0 343.4
>6200 404.4 343.6
>
>With Stinger Exhaust Inserts
>RPM HP Torque (ft-lb)
>4000 278.7 366.3
>4100 286.2 367.0
>4200 297.4 372.0
>4300 310.4 378.8
>4400 322.4 384.7
>4500 333.8 389.6
>4600 343.4 392.2
>4700 353.6 395.0
>4800 365.5 399.6
>4900 372.6 399.7
>5000 376.0 395.1
>5100 385.4 396.4
>5200 388.9 393.2
>5300 395.0 391.3
>5400 404.5 393.0
>5500 411.0 392.4
>5600 410.4 385.1
>5700 404.9 373.3
>5800 406.1 367.6
>5900 407.6 362.5
>6000 402.5 352.7
>6100 400.9 345.8
>
>I've got all of this data plotted and need to host it somewhere
>for all to see. With the graphs, you can tell at a glance how
>important the various changes are.
>
>> ...if you are running 4V ..the exhaust ports should be dremeled
>> on the top of the header so the escaping gasses won't crash
>> into a wall.
>
>Another area where the Hall headers have a problem is in the
>the collector. It necks down to a very small cross-sectional
>area. Cutting off the collector and welding on a better one
>would likely yield a benefit, assuming the mufflers aren't
>too restrictive.
>
>If I were to design an under car Pantera header from scratch,
>I'd probably do a step header with steps of perhaps 1 3/4",
>1 7/8" and 2" though I'd likely sacrifice one of the steps to
>get fit a decent length collector. Might be worth some simulation
>work to see how that would compare to the Euro GTS headers.
>With a step header, the port plates might not be necessary.
>
>Dan Jones
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