[DeTomaso] Hall Headers

Tue Apr 6 20:22:37 EDT 2010

My opinion - take it for what it's worth - remember, my opinion is free...

3-10hp isn't worth it.  You will never feel 10hp - unless you are in a Honda Insight and you normally only make 50hp ;-)

If you're making 300hp, 10hp is rounding error.  Okay, maybe not if you are in a race car, but come on.  Most of us are arm-chair heroes.

If it were me, I wouldn't mess with yet another part to leak, crack, etc., for a lousy 10hp.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 6, 2010 11:03 AM
>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hall Headers
>
>> Dan Jones'Great 351C Dyno project recently tested a set of the bronze
>> Port Stingers from MPG ( I believe that's right).
>
>That is correct.
>
>> IIRC, they were good for an honest 5-6 horsepower, but far, far less
>> than 20 hp.
>
>The peak HP difference was only 3 HP but the maximum difference was
>14.6 HP at 4500 RPM.  Understand that peak numbers are not important.
>It's the area under the curve between shift points that is important.
>The Stinger inserts made a meaningful improvement across most of our
>tested RPM range:
>
>Port Plate Test
>Same setup as pull number 10 with the unported iron 4V heads, Strip
>Dominator HVH intake setup and Pantera headers.  The Pantera headers
>come straight out from the cylinder head, whereas the Mustang Hooker
>long tube headers turn downward more quickly.  In this case, the
>exhaust port insert seems to help.
>
>Holley Strip Dominator with HVH Run 10
>950 HP dyno carb, Pantera GTS headers and Magnaflow mufflers.
>For the 10th pull of the day we switched back to the Holley Strip Dominator
>and HVH spacer which was the best combination tested on the unported iron
>heads previously.  We found it to be virtually identical to our previous
>numbers with the Pantera headers.
>
>Without Stinger Exhaust Inserts
>RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
>4000	278.7	362.9
>4100	291.9	370.3
>4200	294.8	369.3
>4300	301.1	368.1
>4400	308.9	369.0
>4500	319.2	372.6
>4600	331.7	378.5
>4700	345.3	385.5
>4800	356.9	390.1
>4900	363.5	389.9
>5000	372.8	390.4
>5100	378.2	389.6
>5200	382.4	386.5
>5300	389.9	386.4
>5400	396.7	385.9
>5500	403.1	384.9
>5600	407.6	382.3
>5700	408.0	375.7
>5800	405.9	367.4
>5900	398.5	355.2
>6000	395.4	346.2
>6100	399.0	343.4
>6200	404.4	343.6
>
>With Stinger Exhaust Inserts
>RPM     HP      Torque (ft-lb)
>4000	278.7	366.3
>4100	286.2	367.0
>4200	297.4	372.0
>4300	310.4	378.8
>4400	322.4	384.7
>4500	333.8	389.6
>4600	343.4	392.2
>4700	353.6	395.0
>4800	365.5	399.6
>4900	372.6	399.7
>5000	376.0	395.1
>5100	385.4	396.4
>5200	388.9	393.2
>5300	395.0	391.3
>5400	404.5	393.0
>5500	411.0	392.4
>5600	410.4	385.1
>5700	404.9	373.3
>5800	406.1	367.6
>5900	407.6	362.5
>6000	402.5	352.7
>6100	400.9	345.8
>
>I've got all of this data plotted and need to host it somewhere
>for all to see.  With the graphs, you can tell at a glance how
>important the various changes are.
>
>> ...if you are running 4V ..the exhaust ports should be dremeled
>> on the top of the header so the escaping gasses won't crash
>> into a wall.
>
>Another area where the Hall headers have a problem is in the
>the collector.  It necks down to a very small cross-sectional
>area.  Cutting off the collector and welding on a better one
>would likely yield a benefit, assuming the mufflers aren't
>too restrictive.
>
>If I were to design an under car Pantera header from scratch,
>I'd probably do a step header with steps of perhaps 1 3/4",
>1 7/8" and 2" though I'd likely sacrifice one of the steps to
>get fit a decent length collector.  Might be worth some simulation
>work to see how that would compare to the Euro GTS headers.
>With a step header, the port plates might not be necessary.
>
>Dan Jones
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