[DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.

Wed Sep 9 11:07:19 EDT 2009

Gary lives in the air like Mike does, just in a smaller house...much much
smaller.

Larry (grounded) - Cleveland

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of asajay at asajay.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:37 PM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.

yea... the vacuum pump I have isn't quite as strong.
Where do you live again?  If you went to the Hot Rod cafe in Idaho  
recently, you should be close to me.

Asa Jay

Quoting GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>:

> It probably won't help you much but I bleed my clutches and brakes with
> a vacuum pump and tank:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/brakes/bleed1.jpg
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/MGB/brakes/bleed2.jpg
>
> Gary
>
> asajay at asajay.com wrote:
>> No, I didn't consider that.  Not sure I've got the right fittings to
>> make that work well either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:
>>
>>
>>> Did you try pressurizing the slave and bleeding up thru the   
>>> master?  That is
>>> the way I did it because I didn't have the right cap to go from the
master
>>> to the slave.
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "We tried in vein for nearly a half hour to hook the pressure bleeder
>>> to the CNC master, but we just didn't have the right fittings or
>>> enough room to use the generic ones."
>>>
>>> I now have a stock style master and new stock slave on order.  We'll
>>> see what happens.  I'll probably get in touch with Marino tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>> Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Asa Jay,
>>>> I remember that during one of my misadventures in clutch bleeding we
>>>> jacked up one end of the car and managed to get more air out of the
>>>> master.  On another occasion, after a miserable/unsuccessful attempt at
>>>> two man bleeding, (one pumping the pedal),  I broke out my Phoenix
>>>> bleeder.  We pressurized the system from the slave back to the master,
>>>> it worked slicker than owl shit!
>>>>
>>>> Art
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Asa Jay Laughton"
<asajay at asajay.com>
>>>> To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:46 PM
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> After taking data from a lot of sources, I took out Mr. Beefy spring
and
>>>>> replaced it with a much milder spring I had laying around from an
>>>>> automatic transmission valve body kit, that was never used.  This made
>>>>> the action of the slave much more pronounced and I was able to get
>>>>> things adjusted according to SOBill's procedure.  Yea!  But I still
>>>>> can't get total disengagement.  So I thought it's just an adjustment
at
>>>>> this point, but I was wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I decided to totally remove the -external- return spring and stop
>>>>> monkeying with springs fighting and who knows how much return on the
>>>>> piston.  This allowed the release bearing to gently ride against the
>>>>> pressure plate fingers, which I can deal with for some
troubleshooting.
>>>>> With the system bled of air, the clutch action is just barely, but not
>>>>> quite enough, to stop the trans at full throw of the system.  I can
get
>>>>> it into any forward gear because of syncros.  But I can't get it into
>>>>> reverse.  With the pedal to the floor, I can barely get a .010 feeler
>>>>> gauge between the flywheel and the disc.  This is regardless of one
>>>>> pedal push, or a rapid series of pedal pushes.
>>>>>
>>>>> So.  First thing tomorrow, I'm ordering a new master and a new slave
>>>>> (long throw most likely), and we'll try again next weekend.
>>>>>
>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>>
>>>>> & Shelley Marie
>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>>
>>>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
>>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]
>>>>>
>>>>> ******************************
>>>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Julian Kift wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The correct or no spring will certainly help, I suspect at the
>>>>>> moemnt you are getting coil bind on that beefy spring which is why
>>>>>>  the piston won't go in far enough to allow the throwout bearing
>>>>>> to  releases fully from the diaphragm. Personally I'd be tempted
>>>>>> to  get new seals for the old (matched) piston too as it had the
>>>>>> recess for the spring in back and what appeared to be a deeper
>>>>>> recess for the rod, these both adding to how much the clutch arm
>>>>>> can move back toward the slave.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:22:16 -0700
>>>>>>> From: asajay at asajay.com
>>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stock versus PPC slave spring, internal Re:
>>>>>>> Clutch woes in Asa's garage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, so the slave came from a reputable vendor, I have no doubt of
>>>>>>> that. And yes, maybe it does play nice if adjusted "just right."
>>>>>>> However, I've also done a little spring comparison. Chuck Adkinson
and
>>>>>>> SOBill both were kind enough to snap photos of their stock slave
>>>>>>> cylinders they happened to just have lying around. First, a huge
THANK
>>>>>>> YOU to both of them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I took a deep breath, drained the fluid from the clutch line
>>>>>>> (again)
>>>>>>> and removed the spring. It has a relaxed length of about 1.75" and a
>>>>>>> wire diameter of .065. I -can- compress it between my thumb and
>>>>>>> forefinger... but it hurts to do so and I can't hold it for more
than a
>>>>>>> couple seconds. A 10 lb weight held steady on the spring will only
>>>>>>> compress it about 50%.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I then opened up the photos Chuck and SOBill sent and compared them
to
>>>>>>> mine. The spring in my slave appears to be -much- beefier. This
would
>>>>>>> help explain why I am having so much difficulty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've asked if I can get a wire diameter reading off a stock
cylinder. I
>>>>>>> may also have a line on a stock cylinder someone might be willing to
>>>>>>> part with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So in the end, maybe I'm not adjusting it "just right" but I think
>>>>>>> having the proper spring might make it easier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> & Shelley Marie
>>>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang [ASA JAY]
>>>>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533 [ASASCAT]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ******************************
>>>>>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charles Engles wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Center of the Slave Cylinder Storm,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "At that time, in March of 1999, they ordered the following parts
from
>>>>>>>> Pantera Performance Center:
>>>>>>>> - Clutch Master Cylinder w/aero fitting, aftermarket (This is the
>>>>>>>> CNC unit presently on the car)
>>>>>>>> - Slave cylinder assy anodized w/o pushrod (and this is my slave)
>>>>>>>> So, it's a PPC Colorado part."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only tiny contribution I can make to this connundrum, is to
>>>>>>>> point out that those parts are quality parts and should play
>>>>>>>> well with each other and shouldn't--in and of themselves-- be
>>>>>>>> the source of your headaches unless, as other wiser mechanics
>>>>>>>> have suggested, that one unit has completely malfunctioned or
>>>>>>>> there is a fiendish air bubble in the system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles------a very ignorant clutch system
>>>>>>>> mechanic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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