[DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.

asajay at asajay.com asajay at asajay.com
Tue Sep 8 18:35:20 EDT 2009


We tried in vein for nearly a half hour to hook the pressure bleeder  
to the CNC master, but we just didn't have the right fittings or  
enough room to use the generic ones.

I now have a stock style master and new stock slave on order.  We'll  
see what happens.  I'll probably get in touch with Marino tomorrow.

Asa Jay

Quoting Art Stephens <artstephens at verizon.net>:

> Asa Jay,
> I remember that during one of my misadventures in clutch bleeding we
> jacked up one end of the car and managed to get more air out of the
> master.  On another occasion, after a miserable/unsuccessful attempt at
> two man bleeding, (one pumping the pedal),  I broke out my Phoenix
> bleeder.  We pressurized the system from the slave back to the master,
> it worked slicker than owl shit!
>
> Art
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:46 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.
>
>
>> After taking data from a lot of sources, I took out Mr. Beefy spring and
>> replaced it with a much milder spring I had laying around from an
>> automatic transmission valve body kit, that was never used.  This made
>> the action of the slave much more pronounced and I was able to get
>> things adjusted according to SOBill's procedure.  Yea!  But I still
>> can't get total disengagement.  So I thought it's just an adjustment at
>> this point, but I was wrong.
>>
>> I decided to totally remove the -external- return spring and stop
>> monkeying with springs fighting and who knows how much return on the
>> piston.  This allowed the release bearing to gently ride against the
>> pressure plate fingers, which I can deal with for some troubleshooting.
>> With the system bled of air, the clutch action is just barely, but not
>> quite enough, to stop the trans at full throw of the system.  I can get
>> it into any forward gear because of syncros.  But I can't get it into
>> reverse.  With the pedal to the floor, I can barely get a .010 feeler
>> gauge between the flywheel and the disc.  This is regardless of one
>> pedal push, or a rapid series of pedal pushes.
>>
>> So.  First thing tomorrow, I'm ordering a new master and a new slave
>> (long throw most likely), and we'll try again next weekend.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>
>> & Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>>
>> 1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
>> 1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]
>>
>> ******************************
>> http://www.asajay.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian Kift wrote:
>>> The correct or no spring will certainly help, I suspect at the   
>>> moemnt you are getting coil bind on that beefy spring which is why  
>>>  the piston won't go in far enough to allow the throwout bearing  
>>> to  releases fully from the diaphragm. Personally I'd be tempted  
>>> to  get new seals for the old (matched) piston too as it had the   
>>> recess for the spring in back and what appeared to be a deeper   
>>> recess for the rod, these both adding to how much the clutch arm   
>>> can move back toward the slave.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Julian
>>>
>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:22:16 -0700
>>>> From: asajay at asajay.com
>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stock versus PPC slave spring, internal Re:   
>>>> Clutch woes in Asa's garage
>>>>
>>>> Okay, so the slave came from a reputable vendor, I have no doubt of
>>>> that. And yes, maybe it does play nice if adjusted "just right."
>>>> However, I've also done a little spring comparison. Chuck Adkinson and
>>>> SOBill both were kind enough to snap photos of their stock slave
>>>> cylinders they happened to just have lying around. First, a huge THANK
>>>> YOU to both of them.
>>>>
>>>> So, I took a deep breath, drained the fluid from the clutch line (again)
>>>> and removed the spring. It has a relaxed length of about 1.75" and a
>>>> wire diameter of .065. I -can- compress it between my thumb and
>>>> forefinger... but it hurts to do so and I can't hold it for more than a
>>>> couple seconds. A 10 lb weight held steady on the spring will only
>>>> compress it about 50%.
>>>>
>>>> I then opened up the photos Chuck and SOBill sent and compared them to
>>>> mine. The spring in my slave appears to be -much- beefier. This would
>>>> help explain why I am having so much difficulty.
>>>>
>>>> I've asked if I can get a wire diameter reading off a stock cylinder. I
>>>> may also have a line on a stock cylinder someone might be willing to
>>>> part with.
>>>>
>>>> So in the end, maybe I'm not adjusting it "just right" but I think
>>>> having the proper spring might make it easier.
>>>>
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>
>>>> & Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>
>>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang [ASA JAY]
>>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533 [ASASCAT]
>>>>
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles Engles wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Center of the Slave Cylinder Storm,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "At that time, in March of 1999, they ordered the following parts from
>>>>> Pantera Performance Center:
>>>>> - Clutch Master Cylinder w/aero fitting, aftermarket (This is the
>>>>> CNC unit presently on the car)
>>>>> - Slave cylinder assy anodized w/o pushrod (and this is my slave)
>>>>> So, it's a PPC Colorado part."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The only tiny contribution I can make to this connundrum, is to   
>>>>> point out that those parts are quality parts and should play   
>>>>> well with each other and shouldn't--in and of themselves-- be   
>>>>> the source of your headaches unless, as other wiser mechanics   
>>>>> have suggested, that one unit has completely malfunctioned or   
>>>>> there is a fiendish air bubble in the system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles------a very ignorant clutch system mechanic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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