[DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.

Tue Sep 8 18:32:59 EDT 2009

Asa Jay,
I remember that during one of my misadventures in clutch bleeding we jacked 
up one end of the car and managed to get more air out of the master.  On 
another occasion, after a miserable/unsuccessful attempt at two man 
bleeding, (one pumping the pedal),  I broke out my Phoenix bleeder.  We 
pressurized the system from the slave back to the master,  it worked slicker 
than owl shit!

Art

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>
To: "De Tomaso List" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Asa's clutch nearly there.

> After taking data from a lot of sources, I took out Mr. Beefy spring and
> replaced it with a much milder spring I had laying around from an
> automatic transmission valve body kit, that was never used.  This made
> the action of the slave much more pronounced and I was able to get
> things adjusted according to SOBill's procedure.  Yea!  But I still
> can't get total disengagement.  So I thought it's just an adjustment at
> this point, but I was wrong.
>
> I decided to totally remove the -external- return spring and stop
> monkeying with springs fighting and who knows how much return on the
> piston.  This allowed the release bearing to gently ride against the
> pressure plate fingers, which I can deal with for some troubleshooting.
> With the system bled of air, the clutch action is just barely, but not
> quite enough, to stop the trans at full throw of the system.  I can get
> it into any forward gear because of syncros.  But I can't get it into
> reverse.  With the pedal to the floor, I can barely get a .010 feeler
> gauge between the flywheel and the disc.  This is regardless of one
> pedal push, or a rapid series of pedal pushes.
>
> So.  First thing tomorrow, I'm ordering a new master and a new slave
> (long throw most likely), and we'll try again next weekend.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
>
> 1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
> 1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]
>
> ******************************
> http://www.asajay.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>
>
>
>
> Julian Kift wrote:
>> The correct or no spring will certainly help, I suspect at the moemnt you 
>> are getting coil bind on that beefy spring which is why the piston won't 
>> go in far enough to allow the throwout bearing to releases fully from the 
>> diaphragm. Personally I'd be tempted to get new seals for the old 
>> (matched) piston too as it had the recess for the spring in back and what 
>> appeared to be a deeper recess for the rod, these both adding to how much 
>> the clutch arm can move back toward the slave.
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian
>>
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:22:16 -0700
>>> From: asajay at asajay.com
>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Stock versus PPC slave spring, internal Re: Clutch 
>>> woes in Asa's garage
>>>
>>> Okay, so the slave came from a reputable vendor, I have no doubt of
>>> that. And yes, maybe it does play nice if adjusted "just right."
>>> However, I've also done a little spring comparison. Chuck Adkinson and
>>> SOBill both were kind enough to snap photos of their stock slave
>>> cylinders they happened to just have lying around. First, a huge THANK
>>> YOU to both of them.
>>>
>>> So, I took a deep breath, drained the fluid from the clutch line (again)
>>> and removed the spring. It has a relaxed length of about 1.75" and a
>>> wire diameter of .065. I -can- compress it between my thumb and
>>> forefinger... but it hurts to do so and I can't hold it for more than a
>>> couple seconds. A 10 lb weight held steady on the spring will only
>>> compress it about 50%.
>>>
>>> I then opened up the photos Chuck and SOBill sent and compared them to
>>> mine. The spring in my slave appears to be -much- beefier. This would
>>> help explain why I am having so much difficulty.
>>>
>>> I've asked if I can get a wire diameter reading off a stock cylinder. I
>>> may also have a line on a stock cylinder someone might be willing to
>>> part with.
>>>
>>> So in the end, maybe I'm not adjusting it "just right" but I think
>>> having the proper spring might make it easier.
>>>
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>
>>> & Shelley Marie
>>> Spokane, WA
>>>
>>> 1971 Mach I Mustang [ASA JAY]
>>> 1973 Pantera L 5533 [ASASCAT]
>>>
>>> ******************************
>>> http://www.asajay.com
>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Engles wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Center of the Slave Cylinder Storm,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "At that time, in March of 1999, they ordered the following parts from
>>>> Pantera Performance Center:
>>>> - Clutch Master Cylinder w/aero fitting, aftermarket (This is the
>>>> CNC unit presently on the car)
>>>> - Slave cylinder assy anodized w/o pushrod (and this is my slave)
>>>> So, it's a PPC Colorado part."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The only tiny contribution I can make to this connundrum, is to point 
>>>> out that those parts are quality parts and should play well with each 
>>>> other and shouldn't--in and of themselves-- be the source of your 
>>>> headaches unless, as other wiser mechanics have suggested, that one 
>>>> unit has completely malfunctioned or there is a fiendish air bubble in 
>>>> the system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles------a very ignorant clutch system 
>>>> mechanic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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