[DeTomaso] Update.... still no go.... Re: Clutch woes inAsa'sgarage

Sun Sep 6 14:38:13 EDT 2009

Chuck,

I appreciate the link.  The video only appears to have one shot in it where the clutch is
actuated about four times.  

Yes, the first two are the "before" and the last two show the "after" (after the work and
adjustment), edited together.

I can tell you that I'm not getting anywhere near that travel on mine.  

Slightly less is common, significantly less is an indication of a problem.

The question that must be asked here, is what the master was.  Was it a 3/4" CNC like
mine, or a stock unit?

The master is stock (read 1971 vintage, original to the car part).

Oh, .... and mine doesn't return as well without the spring.  I note in your video, the
return spring is hanging loose.  If I don't attach the return spring, mine just kind of
lounges around.

EEEK! another sign you have a problem.  It takes WORK to move the clutch arm by hand
(leverage and vise-grip like holding.)

Some times people hurt their hands moving or trying to move the clutch, there is that much
force to overcome.

There are several springs that help return.  One is on the clutch pedal.  The other is in
the master (or it is there in my CNC unit).

There is one in the slave (not super strong) next is the one (intentionally) disconnected
in the video, and the final is the clutch fingers

 or diaphragm which provides the most force.

I have other video clips of all the various clutch "action areas", including the clutch
effort reduction kit.  I have a lot of work to do,

pulling all the tech info together, updating the numerous pages on the subject (some I
even forgot I had) and making sure it is well

organized, easy to find, and represented on the site map, menu column, and Tech main page,
so this is going to take me a while.

A flat google-like search is not going to work well without a lot of meta-tagging files
that are part of "events" versus tech info topics.

This was how I missed this video clip.

As to your "clutch" thickness. I ran into this when I replaced my clutch (with a used
clutch for some testing) where the total

thickness of the various components including a different flywheel, pressure plate,
"clutch" and TO & TO carrier, was significant.

I'll need to review my notes, photos, and videos from that day before I can answer with
details. but I had to use a different flywheel

(We had several spares!) in order for the parts to fit correctly.  I was truly surprised
at all the variations!

Chuck

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]

******************************     
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com

detomasoregistry at gmail.com wrote: 

Asa Jay,

Because it can be hard to describe the correct function of the slave, well,
if a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video clip must be worth...

You could start down a few levels or at the overview:

http://www.provamo.com/Members/TechInfo/ClutchOverview.asp

OH, wait! Never mind this link.

I realize I need to update the site map, and also move some of these
links, data, photos and video clips into the Tech Answers area....

Now you are going to make me work on a Sunday!

For a video clip of the slave in in-action and action see:

http://www.provamo.com/Members/DeTEvents/2009KaiserTS.asp

In the second half of the video is how the slave should work.

Chuck

Asa Jay,

If you get 1-1/2 inches of travel of the slave piston when the clutch is
released (at rest), my guess would be that the clutch lever arm on the side
of the bellhousing is not in the right position.  If the slave piston is too
far down in the cylinder bore (towards the rear of the car), then it will
bottom out against the stop ring at the end of the cylinder before the
clutch engages.  There isn't enough length or adjustment in the actuator rod
between the slave and clutch lever rod to cover adjusting out 1-1/2 inches.
You probably need to  rotate the clutch lever one spline on its shaft
(rotate it towards the engine) to push the slave piston higher in the slave
bore.

Dave Bell

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
[mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Asa Jay Laughton
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 12:05 AM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Update.... still no go.... Re: Clutch woes in
Asa'sgarage

I feel like I've wasted a whole day on this.  If I adjust the slave so
the throw-out bearing is resting on the fingers of the clutch (which I
don't want to do), then I finally get enough disengagement to barely get
it into gear, but there is still some resistance, like it's still not
disengaging fully.

At rest, I can manually move the slave piston back into the housing
between a half inch and an inch (guess here).  All this seems to do is
push fluid back into the master reservoir.  The point is though, it
doesn't move back on it's own.  I have a pretty darn stiff return spring
on the slave and the master appears to be returning to rest as well.  So
my overall problem appears to be the slave not compressing enough to
give me a long enough throw.  I'm not sure a long throw will help out.
I hate to spend the money on one if it won't solve my problem.

The thing that really bums me is that I thought it used to work just
fine before I replaced the pressure plate, disc, etc.  But then again...
it -was- toast.  <sigh>

It's starting to look like I may not get to drive it this year either.

Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]

******************************
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com

Asa Jay Laughton wrote:

Well, try as I might, I can't seem to get the clutch to totally
disengage the trans.  I have tried SOBill's method, which appears to be
right on the money, but I can't seem to get enough throw.

Here are my specs:
- Master is a CNC 3/4" bore
- Slave appears to be an aftermarket anodized part, with a 1" bore
(3.75" exterior length)
- Solid line at master
- Braided stainless (Pantera Performance Center) slave line
- New ATE Brake Fluid

I just can't seem to get enough throw, but it "used to work."  Okay, but
also consider this, the pressure plate was toast, the clutch disc pretty
well shot and the flywheel was heat checked.  Could it be I was being
fooled earlier and it didn't really have enough throw previously?

So, if I put a long-throw slave on it, with the CNC master, will that
help me out?  I've spent nearly all day trying to adjust this with no
luck.  We've bled it until I have no bubbles in the line at all.  I've
gone back twice to bleed it and not got -any- bubbles out of it.  I just
don't seem to have enough throw.

I'm looking for some guidance here.
Thank you,
Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired

& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA

1971 Mach I Mustang  [ASA JAY]
1973 Pantera L 5533  [ASASCAT]

******************************
http://www.asajay.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com

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